Ronald Koeman discussion

[BlueToff]

My overall point in regards the squad is this.

Martinez (as he had every right to do) built a squad to suit his needs and his style of play.

However, Koeman is trying to get away from that style, as it took us backwards (as Martinez failed to get the best out of the group he had assembled).

The issue is, said squad is filled with players that either due to age or genuine lack of quality, don't seem to be able to adapt back to another style of system with any consistency. So atm, we have this middle ground and it's pretty tosh.

That being said, I do think there's some changes that Ron-Ko could make in the meantime to mix things up a bit - i.e. Holgate/Davies or a change in formation - though it's all down to the players in that formation to do the business like.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Okay then, that's a better way of phrasing it Tim. Agree there.

I get the cynicism - totally. It's hard not to be cynical with Everton.

The impatience, I don't get.

The impatience is quite simple to be honest. We want to be competing again but are further away than we were 3 to 4 years ago. Regression is frustrating.

 

[Goat]

The impatience is quite simple to be honest. We want to be competing again but are further away than we were 3 to 4 years ago. Regression is frustrating.

We havent competed for 2 seasons, we regressed quite badly in Martinezs last seasons, thats 24months of total regression, with not a single useful player bought in that time and people think it can all be waved away with a magic wand in 6months.

Ronnys not a wizard.

 

[BlueToff]

The impatience is quite simple to be honest. We want to be competing again but are further away than we were 3 to 4 years ago. Regression is frustrating.

As @MoutsGoat said, we haven't regressed from when Mosh or Ron-Ko took over.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Watford was the first time I was baffled by his selection.

But he talks sense. Which is a nice break from the nonsense.

He isn't getting the sack because we're in ninth. Anybody who thinks otherwise is deluded (and I know me and @Tree13 joked about it) but yeh, bloody entitled as well.

If we're in a stick later in the season and he's brought players in, maybe he would go.

But for the time being get behind the new manager and just look at the bigger picture (not directed at you this btw, but in general).

I wish I was as good a fan as you.

 

[BlueToff]

I wish I was as good a fan as you.

I'm in no way questioning anybody else's commitment or support of Everton pal

I'm just saying, patience. We've been crap for two years. To expect a turn-around in 15 games with a set of players that are now proving they're capable of playing well in only 10-15 minute spells, then I think that's a bit hopeful.

We should still be doing better, no doubt, and Koeman has made mistakes. But not enough to get him sacked or even in danger of it.

 

[Blue Cheese]

We havent competed for 2 seasons, we regressed quite badly in Martinezs last seasons, thats 24months of total regression, with not a single useful player bought in that time and people think it can all be waved away with a magic wand in 6months.

Ronnys not a wizard.

He's not a wizard. He is a very well paid premiership manager who currently isn't earning his money. Dress it up how you like, he's not up to scratch , so far.

However, You's are probably right and he isn't going anywhere, so I have decided to stop fuming and be patient, he doesn't make it easy to like him though.

I personally think too many are banking on January, I fear the rot has set in and it will be difficult to turn it around because his man management skills don't appear to be there.

 

[BlueToff]

He's not a wizard. He is a very well paid premiership manager who currently isn't earning his money. Dress it up how you like, he's not up to scratch , so far.

However, You's are probably right and he isn't going anywhere, so I have decided to stop fuming and be patient, he doesn't make it easy to like him though.

I personally think too many are banking on January, I fear the rot has set in and it will be difficult to turn it around because his man management skills don't appear to be there.

It's not banking on January, but it's not his man-management skills either.

These players aren't very good. End of.

 

[Goat]

He's not a wizard. He is a very well paid premiership manager who currently isn't earning his money. Dress it up how you like, he's not up to scratch , so far.

However, You's are probably right and he isn't going anywhere, so I have decided to stop fuming and be patient, he doesn't make it easy to like him though.

I personally think too many are banking on January, I fear the rot has set in and it will be difficult to turn it around because his man management skills don't appear to be there.

Hes admitted himself hes not doing well, he doesnt need you or me telling him, im not even banking on January, the squad is worse than we could have imagined, so many players have regressed, so while January will be a pick me up, it will only be a band aid for the gaping wound. Hopefully we can perform the major surgery we need in the summer, but the goal this season is still European football, lets see how that goes.

 

[D410]

It goes without saying that when your sticking £6M quid in your sky rocket each year you better be getting the best out of your team, every week.

January is going to be a defining moment whether people like it or not everyone (Board, Manager, Players,Fans) is going to latch onto this moment for the rest of the season. We better have a stellar Jan transfer window otherwise watching the Everton board get re-elected for failure again at the AGM in January would be unthinkable.

 

[zzr45]

It can take years to rebuild a squad. Cases like us getting 4th and Leicester winning the league are the 1/100 chance you get sometimes.

The culture that's been built up over the years under Martinez is still in there, for me there doesn't seem to be any impetus for the players to improve as we see from week to week as they expect to be mollycoddled. Granted the hungry young lads aren't getting the time they deserve (arguably against Utd the injection of energy Holgate gave us changed the game.)

I think Koeman is frustrated as it's proving to be a more difficult job than he thought, but realistically look at Wigan who dropped down to L1 - the mess Martinez leaves at clubs when he goes is incredible and the cleaning up will be a long time coming.

 

[Lanolin]

I'm in no way questioning anybody else's commitment or support of Everton pal

I'm just saying, patience. We've been crap for two years. To expect a turn-around in 15 games with a set of players that are now proving they're capable of playing well in only 10-15 minute spells, then I think that's a bit hopeful.

We should still be doing better, no doubt, and Koeman has made mistakes. But not enough to get him sacked or even in danger of it.

I don't think people were expecting a massive turn around though. Most sensible people agree that 7th/8th would be a perfectly acceptable return this year, nobody's asking him to win us the league.

The fact is, we're currently 9th and it's a totally false position on current form. 1 win in 11 games is horrific by anyone's standards. I don't want Koeman sacked and I don't think he can be - yet. Seriously though, if we don't win any of the next 4, relegation becomes a genuine possibility. Sides that only win 1 game in a third of a season quite often go down, and don't think it couldn't happen to us.

I don't care who the manager is, or how long he's been here, a run of results like that is simply not acceptable. Taking over a team who finished 11th, adding 5 players of your own and going backwards is not acceptable. Call me deluded all you like, but unless he starts winning some games quickly the manager will be under massive pressure, and rightly so.

 

[Duncan Disordely]

I think part of the reason we've been going so much longer in the last couple of games is because Barkley has been sat on the bench. He's one of the few who can carry the ball forward, or receive it in a difficult position and move it on to someone else.

If you're Steklenberg and you've got the ball, you look down the pitch and ahead of you you've got Williams, Mori, Barry and Cleverly then a hoof probably looks the most attractive option.

 

[kenada_blue]

My overall point in regards the squad is this.

Martinez (as he had every right to do) built a squad to suit his needs and his style of play.

However, Koeman is trying to get away from that style, as it took us backwards (as Martinez failed to get the best out of the group he had assembled).

The issue is, said squad is filled with players that either due to age or genuine lack of quality, don't seem to be able to adapt back to another style of system with any consistency. So atm, we have this middle ground and it's pretty tosh.

That being said, I do think there's some changes that Ron-Ko could make in the meantime to mix things up a bit - i.e. Holgate/Davies or a change in formation - though it's all down to the players in that formation to do the business like.

Valid points.

But my problem is that hes got us playing some of, if not THE, worst football in the league.

Even if the players aren't "good enough" theyre still capable to playing more cultured football than MK Dons.

 

[kenada_blue]

I think part of the reason we've been going so much longer in the last couple of games is because Barkley has been sat on the bench. He's one of the few who can carry the ball forward, or receive it in a difficult position and move it on to someone else.

If you're Steklenberg and you've got the ball, you look down the pitch and ahead of you you've got Williams, Mori, Barry and Cleverly then a hoof probably looks the most attractive option.

But he doesn't run about loads so any technical ability is frowned upon.