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Ronald Koeman discussion

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kenada_blue said:
Valid points.

But my problem is that hes got us playing some of, if not THE, worst football in the league.

Even if the players aren't "good enough" theyre still capable to playing more cultured football than MK Dons.
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But according to Koeman the players have just taken it upon themselves to play Hoof.

Nowt to do wi' me, guvnor :cheers:
 
Lanolin said:
I don't think people were expecting a massive turn around though. Most sensible people agree that 7th/8th would be a perfectly acceptable return this year, nobody's asking him to win us the league.

The fact is, we're currently 9th and it's a totally false position on current form. 1 win in 11 games is horrific by anyone's standards. I don't want Koeman sacked and I don't think he can be - yet. Seriously though, if we don't win any of the next 4, relegation becomes a genuine possibility. Sides that only win 1 game in a third of a season quite often go down, and don't think it couldn't happen to us.

I don't care who the manager is, or how long he's been here, a run of results like that is simply not acceptable. Taking over a team who finished 11th, adding 5 players of your own and going backwards is not acceptable. Call me deluded all you like, but unless he starts winning some games quickly the manager will be under massive pressure, and rightly so.
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I agree on the principle, but we haven't lost those games yet.

The position can't be false. We are where we are because there are 11 other teams that have been worse than us.

He is under pressure, he has said as much. But we haven't gone backwards since he took over, not one bit.
 
Khalekan said:
But according to Koeman the players have just taken it upon themselves to play Hoof.

Nowt to do wi' me, guvnor :cheers:
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Well I don't think he said that Khal.

I think he's made it clear he wanted to get away from the fiddly, messing about at the back stuff from the RM era, and be a bit more direct.

We had that in the first few games, and it worked. It wasn't perfect, it was a work in process, but it was getting there.

One defeat (Norwich) and the team suddenly reverted to type, with the play in general not up to scratch.

I think what he said yesterday was that due to a lack of confidence, when we do have the chance to play it about a bit, we aren't doing it (the example he used was Stekkers going long on Saturday rather than get the ball down and play).

I'm not happy with a lot of aspects, RK included, but this team is so bad. It's pathetic.

The players aren't - on paper - bad players, but they're mentally fragile and incapable of adapting. There's a severe lack of leadership and the experienced players we do have are quickly becoming past their best. On the other hand, we have Ross, who looks ready to cry whenever he does owt wrong so just reverts to passing sideways.
 

BlueToff said:
I agree on the principle, but we haven't lost those games yet.

The position can't be false. We are where we are because there are 11 other teams that have been worse than us.

He is under pressure, he has said as much. But we haven't gone backwards since he took over, not one bit.
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Of course the position can be false. No we haven't lost the games yet - that's kind of the point I'm making. If we win tonight, the pressures off and he's guaranteed to get the January window. Win the next 4 and we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.

It's hard to see where a win is coming from though, and if it doesn't come soon I think the club will have to act. Don't forget it's happened more than once before with Koeman - maybe his methods just fail badly at some clubs.
 
Encouraging to hear Koeman's frustrations about Stekelenberg and the long ball.

But it does beg the question, why does he keep picking him? Poor with his feet, has absolutely zero command of his area and keeps making mistakes. And now we are told he isn't following instructions to play it out?

Bring back Ruthless Ronnie from August please.
 
BlueToff said:
Well I don't think he said that Khal.

One defeat (Norwich) and the team suddenly reverted to type, with the play in general not up to scratch.
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Well there were plenty on here yesterday and indeed today, saying that is what he did say.

And if the team "reverted to type" three months ago and he has just sat idly by and let them, then heaven help us.
 
Lanolin said:
Of course the position can be false. No we haven't lost the games yet - that's kind of the point I'm making. If we win tonight, the pressures off and he's guaranteed to get the January window. Win the next 4 and we'll be wondering what all the fuss was about.

It's hard to see where a win is coming from though, and if it doesn't come soon I think the club will have to act. Don't forget it's happened more than once before with Koeman - maybe his methods just fail badly at some clubs.
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He will not be sacked before the January window. Not a chance in hell.

The pressure is rightly on, to win, and get us going into that window in good form.

The pressure is also on the club to back the manager/Walsh and get the signings in sharply to give us that boost - that is my main concern, tbh.
 
BlueToff said:
It's nowt to do with that.

Koeman clearly rates him.

The fact is that Ross hasn't been good enough. He needs to step up.

We say 'he runs with the ball' but, actually, he hasn't done that in ages.
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Hard to run with the ball when generally theirs no space due to players everywhere staying static, hard to look creative with the ball when everyone around you is being static. Hard to get the space to get a shot off from range - when you guessed it, everyone around you is static.

One of the big problems we have and it's been that way for years now, is we just don't move enough, fartoo many just stay where they are or take a set position and wait for the ball, and it makes it incredibly easy to defend against.

By the way not absolving Barkley of blame, as when he's not on the ball himself he suffers the same problem of waiting for it to often rather than moving and trying to lose his man or free up space for others. But it's a huge reason of why he looks to have gone backwards the past year or so.

Christ look at us when we get a throw in even - we hardly move and about 70% of the time it ends up in us losing possession within a few seconds of taking it. may sound overly simple using that, but it is a symptom of one of our major problems going forwards.

and the fact we are so bad at it, kinda makes it easier to udnerstand why we struggle badly against teams with a lot of movement, how the hell can we prepare in training for something we can't do ourselves...
 

Khalekan said:
Well there were plenty on here yesterday and indeed today, saying that is what he did say.

And if the team "reverted to type" three months ago and he has just sat idly by and let them, then heaven help us.
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In no way has he 'sat idly by'. He's clearly attempted to make things happen and get a reaction from this sorry bunch of losers. He's openly questioned them but at the same time expressed his faith that they will react, but they haven't.

The fact remains that a 5-0 hammering at Chelsea couldn't even embarrass them into waking up. They're an awful bunch and genuinely I'd be happy to see the majority of them moved on by the start of next season.

What I do think he's done wrong is not make simple changes that from the outside seem to have aided us during games. That being said, simply 'calling up the kids' isn't gonna fix a thing either.
 
A gutless derby day performance should put him under a lot of pressure.

But judging by my impression of him, I don't think he will be as he doesn't seem to take us so seriously.
 
BlueToff said:
I agree on the principle, but we haven't lost those games yet.

The position can't be false. We are where we are because there are 11 other teams that have been worse than us.

He is under pressure, he has said as much. But we haven't gone backwards since he took over, not one bit.
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The position can be false, depends on the fixture runs, who has played in form teams etc. However this point falls apart to generous Everton, every team in a bad slump must pray their game against us comes around soon. Answer for us is to play against ourselves
 
bluestevon said:
Hard to run with the ball when generally theirs no space due to players everywhere staying static, hard to look creative with the ball when everyone around you is being static. Hard to get the space to get a shot off from range - when you guessed it, everyone around you is static.

One of the big problems we have and it's been that way for years now, is we just don't move enough, fartoo many just stay where they are or take a set position and wait for the ball, and it makes it incredibly easy to defend against.

By the way not absolving Barkley of blame, as when he's not on the ball himself he suffers the same problem of waiting for it to often rather than moving and trying to lose his man or free up space for others. But it's a huge reason of why he looks to have gone backwards the past year or so.

Christ look at us when we get a throw in even - we hardly move and about 70% of the time it ends up in us losing possession within a few seconds of taking it. may sound overly simple using that, but it is a symptom of one of our major problems going forwards.

and the fact we are so bad at it, kinda makes it easier to udnerstand why we struggle badly against teams with a lot of movement, how the hell can we prepare in training for something we can't do ourselves...
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Which goes back to the root of the problem - the players can't adapt.

Look at Koeman's Saints team. Loads of movement up top, lots of energy in midfield.

The only player who moved around at all on Saturday was Del (in the second half) and it worked. Valencia did it when he came on as well.

These players are bottlers mate. Half of the issue I think was three years of RM, and even though Koeman's made mistakes, there's a symptomatic issue in this squad.
 

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