Ronald Koeman discussion

[GerryandthePaceMerchants]

I do wonder if he has the passion for the job. The problem with splashing the money about is you get mercenaries. Players and staff. Unless you're spending Yaya-bucks and get mercenaries at the top of their game then you'll be in trouble.

Little thing after little thing about Koeman's post match comments, social media etc just have a nagging sense of "he's here for the money"

I don't think he loses any sleep when Everton lose.

 

[kenada_blue]

It's nowt to do with that.

Koeman clearly rates him.

The fact is that Ross hasn't been good enough. He needs to step up.

We say 'he runs with the ball' but, actually, he hasn't done that in ages.

Step up against tactics that don't suit him.

Personally, hes had more good games this season than bad. But his good games are generally being quiet for periods as he chases/doesn't chase balls as we are now not playing through the midfield.

Theres been 3 players who have played his position trying to perform the way Koeman wants. McCarthy, Clev, Del. With the one game, Del played well. The other two were horrible and suffered from the same thing Ross does, lack of involvement in the game.

Hes not the focus - Bolasie, Lukaku are. Therefore hes not going to be involved as much. If we're not passing, it loses a major aspect of his game.

Koeman has come out and wants him to play closer to Rom and not drop deep for the ball. Again, for seasons hes been the orchestrator to our attacks, now he wants him to be a "support striker"

But with that, theres no other support around him. You'll be hard pressed to find a 23 year old creative or general midfielder who is supposed to be the main player at a top side who doesnt have support of quality around him.

To me, he doesn't suit Koeman's style and will be out the door with Rom in the summer

 

[BlueToff]

I do wonder if he has the passion for the job. The problem with splashing the money about is you get mercenaries. Players and staff. Unless you're spending Yaya-bucks and get mercenaries at the top of their game then you'll be in trouble.

Little thing after little thing about Koeman's post match comments, social media etc just have a nagging sense of "he's here for the money"

I don't think he loses any sleep when Everton lose.

Considering this is probably the biggest move of his career, I'm sure he 'gets it'

 

[BlueToff]

Step up against tactics that don't suit him.

Personally, hes had more good games this season than bad. But his good games are generally being quiet for periods as he chases/doesn't chase balls as we are now not playing through the midfield.

Theres been 3 players who have played his position trying to perform the way Koeman wants. McCarthy, Clev, Del. With the one game, Del played well. The other two were horrible and suffered from the same thing Ross does, lack of involvement in the game.

Hes not the focus - Bolasie, Lukaku are. Therefore hes not going to be involved as much. If we're not passing, it loses a major aspect of his game.

Koeman has come out and wants him to play closer to Rom and not drop deep for the ball. Again, for seasons hes been the orchestrator to our attacks, now he wants him to be a "support striker"

But with that, theres no other support around him. You'll be hard pressed to find a 23 year old creative or general midfielder who is supposed to be the main player at a top side who doesnt have support of quality around him.

To me, he doesn't suit Koeman's style and will be out the door with Rom in the summer

Mate, what tactics do suit him then?

Top-class players can adapt. Barkley needs to do that.

So far, he's done okay. He hasn't played in certain games because of his tendency to fall asleep and revert to 'crabbing' around midfield. He's class but needs to start showing it.

I agree on he needs help from teammates as well - I in no way blame him for a lack of options when he's on the ball.

I don't even want him to run around loads. I just want him to be our focal point, like he should be.

 

[Khalekan]

In no way has he 'sat idly by'. He's clearly attempted to make things happen and get a reaction from this sorry bunch of losers. He's openly questioned them but at the same time expressed his faith that they will react, but they haven't.

You are not doing a very good job in championing Koeman's cause, Toff.

The more you laud this fellow the more it seems to me we have made a major mistake and appointed an average, at best, manager.

You make too many excuses for him and lazily blame the players for not carrying out his instructions.

And you contradict yourself.....in this post you are saying that "he clearly wanted to make things happen".

Yet in other discussions we have had in recent months you and me have both agreed he needed to "try something different" as what he was doing "clearly" wasn't working.

You wanted a different formation and start with two up top instead of waiting until we are chasing the game.....you have been calling for an infusion of youth, vitality and enthusiasm from our younger players but your call has been in vain thus far.

And I agree with you in making those suggestions.

But nothing remotely like this has happened.

Now we find he is washing his hands of the Hoof and saying it is not what he instructed them to do.

This is the very epitome of a person being "sat idly by"

 

[kenada_blue]

Mate, what tactics do suit him then?

Top-class players can adapt. Barkley needs to do that.

So far, he's done okay. He hasn't played in certain games because of his tendency to fall asleep and revert to 'crabbing' around midfield. He's class but needs to start showing it.

I agree on he needs help from teammates as well - I in no way blame him for a lack of options when he's on the ball.

I don't even want him to run around loads. I just want him to be our focal point, like he should be.

Same. But hes not and won't be.

And do all top class adapt? Or are they bought and then built around?

Ozil is the same everywhere hes been. De Bruyne, Silva, Aguero...

 

[Lanolin]

I'm sorry, but a position is not false.

You are where you are.

Sunderland are 20th because they were crap until very recently.

We were 2nd because we won 5 of our opening six.

Regardless of the fixture list, the table don't lie.

You're not understanding the point mate. Obviously the table reflects how many points you have, but it doesn't necessarily reflect how well a team is playing or where they are likely to finish.

Take Chelsea last year for example, when we played them in January they were in the bottom half, but they were absolutely not a bottom half team. They were the reigning champions, and were on a terrific run of form at the time, but had made a terrible start. Their position was, therefore, 'false'. You don't approach the game like you would a normal team in their position, because they're a lot better than that.

When John carver was at Newcastle they had the same in reverse. They were clearly the worst team in the league for months but their good start put them in a false position. If the season had been a couple of weeks longer they'd have gone down.

Same principle for us this season, we're 9th but none of our form has been that of a mid-table side. We were at the top of the form guide, now we're at the bottom. The point is that just saying 'don't be ridiculous, we're 9th' doesn't really take into account what people are actually concerned about - our truly abysmal run of performances and results.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Think back to the Norwich match last season. RM was gone, the toxic atmosphere was gone, there were three kids
on the pitch and there was a feeling of positivity and energy about the place. There was something to build on, but
where has it gone?

If additions to the squad in the January window is the answer, it's important that it's being planned now and they
come in early. The thought of any dithering at the end of the month scares me.

We might get out of this horrible rut we're in before then, but it doesn't look likely.

 

[Legend Barry Horne]

Give him time - he / Steve Walsh will get it right

He's improved the defence - there were games earlier in the season as well that we drew / lost but dominated the stats

Hopefully can bring in a couple of new attacking players and a center back in Jan....

 

[BlueToff]

Same. But hes not and won't be.

And do all top class adapt? Or are they bought and then built around?

Ozil is the same everywhere hes been. De Bruyne, Silva, Aguero...

We can't build a team around Barkley as he currently isn't good enough. All of those players have adapted to the (vastly) different managers they have played under, bar De Bruyne at Chelsea.

 

[kenada_blue]

We can't build a team around Barkley as he currently isn't good enough. All of those players have adapted to the (vastly) different managers they have played under, bar De Bruyne at Chelsea.

By utilising their best attributes and adding to them.

And you could build a team around him. We just won't and buy someone older and more complete.

Not worried about him as he'll either shine here or at another club.

 

[BlueToff]

By utilising their best attributes and adding to them.

And you could build a team around him. We just won't and buy someone older and more complete.

Not worried about him as he'll either shine here or at another club.

The lad has got all the tools, and I'm a huge fan.

But we are still acting like he's doing the things he did in his first season - he hasn't in ages.

He can't tackle well, so we can't play him deep, but he doesn't have the movement or vision to shrug off his markers in a No.10 role either.

So the only way I see we can 'build' around him is go 4-3-3, but unless we play a striker up top on one of the wings, we isolate Rom. It's catch 22.

 

[neil999]

strange how we have gone from a team leading games and conceding late goals, to conceding leads and scoring late goals

WEIRDOS!

 

[kenada_blue]

The lad has got all the tools, and I'm a huge fan.

But we are still acting like he's doing the things he did in his first season - he hasn't in ages.

He can't tackle well, so we can't play him deep, but he doesn't have the movement or vision to shrug off his markers in a No.10 role either.

So the only way I see we can 'build' around him is go 4-3-3, but unless we play a striker up top on one of the wings, we isolate Rom. It's catch 22.

Well, theres always a kneejerk reaction around him. "Hasn't developed in 3 years etc" when the fact he actually only became a rounded midfielder last season and had his personal best record for assists and goals (9 goals, 8 assists I believe)

The majority of the people expect him to be that kid in the playground from 3 years ago, mainly due to us not playing well and want him to single handily win games.

Personally, from May to December last season he was playing as one of the top young midfielders in European football. As with everyone his age, form dipped. As a club we didnt have anyone to help him out player wise.

Then suddenly, hes not in the england side (after playing most of the qualifiers), fans on his back, and now dropped from club and country.

And at the moment he doesn't fit Koeman's system.

And I think thats a right way to play with a striker of the wings. We need fluidity in the forward line, which we're not doing.

 

[kenada_blue]

The lad has got all the tools, and I'm a huge fan.

But we are still acting like he's doing the things he did in his first season - he hasn't in ages.

He can't tackle well, so we can't play him deep, but he doesn't have the movement or vision to shrug off his markers in a No.10 role either.

So the only way I see we can 'build' around him is go 4-3-3, but unless we play a striker up top on one of the wings, we isolate Rom. It's catch 22.

In fact my ideal set up would be a Mata or Gylfi type player out wide and Ross in the middle.

You'd have two players on the same wave length but in certain positions and would add a lot to our game