Ronald Koeman discussion

[ianefc]

This must be the quietest window for any new manager we've had, Ian, in fairness. A quiet one regardless, despite all sorts of (sort of) reassurances from higher up

Even my patience is wearing thin, now.

I simply think it's a case that the calibre of player we are after, may not see us as their ideal move, we are seemingly after top players, players who currently may think they're above is because of two atrocious seasons and players wanting out. We shall see if the patience game wins for us, don't get me wrong, if this squad isn't improved by 2/9/16 I'll be fuming like most.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

we're already off the pace because of the disastrous last 2 years that have left players wanting out and a set of players as individuals and collectively bereft of any confidence. We need new players no doubt, but we need the right players, if they take a little longer to get, so be it, we've spent a while now as a club getting the wrong players (in the main) we need to realise for the type of player we are after, we as a club may not be their first choice, but in turn, they may not get their first choice, for example I think Mata wants to stay at UTD, that won't be his choice, it'll be a choice made for him once UTD finish their incomings.

Patience is key, you had it with Martinez more than any member on this entire forum, yet you're seeming long casting big doubts over Moshiri 3 1/2 weeks prior to his first transfer window closing.

All very well asking for patience Ian. We can't all be Job, mate. Things were meant to have changed, hope was offered after 20 years or more of drudgery and handwringing.

And still it continues. Our sights have been lowered with not much hope (or signs) of improving. Yet again it appears that we're waiting on one of our best players being sold before incoming transfers of significance are gonna be made.

Same shoite, different shovel. Not good enough.

 

[Mikey_Fitzgerald]

I actually like the way we played in that first half yesterday

That game should have, and likely would have, been at the very least a 1-1 if Baines had took that pen

I think we're going in the right direction, but it'll take time

 

[Frank Gallagher]

when the new regime re-signed gibson, and made that there opening show of 'intent' that told me all i need to know.

 

[davek]

The rebuilding of the team is going to take time and effort. Some players will hopefully improve their performances / team ethic, others will need shipping out asap.

I see similarities as to when Moyes took over from Smith in regards to player influence. Martinez had allowed the players to dictate and that always leads to problems. It took Moyes a few seasons to whittle out the likes of Radzinski, Blomqvist (sp) etc and we lost Rooney in this period of instability but came out of it a better team.

We may need to go backwards before we can truly move forward on the pitch.

Structure appears to be being implemented for the clubs long term future so we just need to trust those in the management area of our club to get us functioning as a unit again instead of a rabble of spoilt brats and egos who believe they are better than their actual abilities (Roberto has a lot to answer for in regards to this).

I have to agree mate, no matter how much I respect the ideals of RM and the early work he put in here, attitudes amongst this squad are terrible in terms of discipline and carrying out instruction.

By the way, when Moyes came in here he read the riot act and it worked for a few months, but it then worked against him and by all independent accounts there was a revolt against him at the end of his first full season here. Moyes governed from then on with the consent of senior pros...that was his Modus Operendi. Koeman has to get his own men in this squad to do that because he's inherited Moyes old guard....as did RM - and we saw how that eventually worked out.

 

[ianefc]

Then mate you pay what you need to in order to 'convince' those players to come, right now we are trying to compete with more established teams by offering 'slightly' above what they are or would offer, shortb term you need to basically act in a way that defies normal business logic and maybe thats the downfall, Moshiri is a very astute businessman whose likely not used to paying more than something is genuinely worth, but in football and to make that leap between where we are and where we want to be, then sometimes its the only way to do it initially

By all accounts we have blown Juve out of the water for Witsel yet he wants Juve and CL, we can't compete with that. We have to wait for him to either fail/succeed in getting the move to Juve. We will be waiting.

 

[bluestevon]

Still seems we're holding out for the best deal. Which is smart until we end up with nothing. Seems we're afraid to accept that the market has massively inflated.

We want to sell Stones and we seemingly want to raise our wage structure by 50m+ this season, for the life of me i don't see how we are going to do that, yes we will sell stones but if anyone can see how we are going to spend an extra 1m per week on wages in the squad then i'd be interested to hear it.

So question ecomes if we don't raise the wages by that much, then why are we selling stones rather than selling other players who would allow us to raise the wages by the amount we need rather than by a figure we wont even get close to reaching?

 

[ianefc]

Pretty obvious like. Get him with promises. Deliver nothing. Give him no money. Try and sell stones. Pretty much that.

Try and sell stones? And deliver nothing?

Has Stones gone and is the window closed?

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Then mate you pay what you need to in order to 'convince' those players to come, right now we are trying to compete with more established teams by offering 'slightly' above what they are or would offer, shortb term you need to basically act in a way that defies normal business logic and maybe thats the downfall, Moshiri is a very astute businessman whose likely not used to paying more than something is genuinely worth, but in football and to make that leap between where we are and where we want to be, then sometimes its the only way to do it initially

hmmmmm, the arsenal kinda way.....

 

[bluestevon]

By all accounts we have blown Juve out of the water for Witsel yet he wants Juve and CL, we can't compete with that. We have to wait for him to either fail/succeed in getting the move to Juve. We will be waiting.

We have blown Juve out in terms off the bid to Zenit mate, have we really blown them out the water in terms of salary package though?

Suppose it depends on if we offer 120k they offer 105-110k and someone regards that as blowing out the water, i wouldnt personally

If Juve offered 100k pw and we offered 150-160k he'd be wearing the shirt right now

 

[bluestevon]

hmmmmm, the arsenal kinda way.....

Effectively yes, alternatively the accountants way, don't gamble too much with money, know the price things are worth and stick to your business plan

 

[davek]

we're already off the pace because of the disastrous last 2 years that have left players wanting out and a set of players as individuals and collectively bereft of any confidence. We need new players no doubt, but we need the right players, if they take a little longer to get, so be it, we've spent a while now as a club getting the wrong players (in the main) we need to realise for the type of player we are after, we as a club may not be their first choice, but in turn, they may not get their first choice, for example I think Mata wants to stay at UTD, that won't be his choice, it'll be a choice made for him once UTD finish their incomings.

Patience is key, you had it with Martinez more than any member on this entire forum, yet you're seeming long casting big doubts over Moshiri 3 1/2 weeks prior to his first transfer window closing.

I'm sorry, but when people are promised a new dawn and a reboot and a new way of doing things then all excuses from the past (which that ^^^^ is) become redundant. It simply won't wash if this new regime want the confidence and respect of supporters. If they couldn't manage a decent summer investment programme then don't promise it or imply it or get your mates in the media to imply that for you.

 

[LocalNative]

We want to sell Stones and we seemingly want to raise our wage structure by 50m+ this season, for the life of me i don't see how we are going to do that, yes we will sell stones but if anyone can see how we are going to spend an extra 1m per week on wages in the squad then i'd be interested to hear it.

So question ecomes if we don't raise the wages by that much, then why are we selling stones rather than selling other players who would allow us to raise the wages by the amount we need rather than by a figure we wont even get close to reaching?

Stones isn't on major wages' therefore his sale won't reduce the current wage bill tenfold. We have been 'promised' this 100m to spend this summer - so far spend 13 if you include Koeman's compo - which hasn't looked remotely like becoming a reality. We're afraid to pay over the odds for a player as a risk, just like always. Guarantee if Stones leave, we'll replace him with two players and still come away with a profit.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

I simply think it's a case that the calibre of player we are after, may not see us as their ideal move, we are seemingly after top players, players who currently may think they're above is because of two atrocious seasons and players wanting out. We shall see if the patience game wins for us, don't get me wrong, if this squad isn't improved by 2/9/16 I'll be fuming like most.

they will come... FOR MONEY.

we should have gone all out early on and got our witsel or mata, we should have paid them over the odds, but in the long run it works, it shows REAL INTENT from the get go, that moshiri means business, he wants us winning and is prepared to pay £175-200,000 a week for some star players.

instead we re-signed darron gibson and bought fulhams reserve keeper.

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

I simply think it's a case that the calibre of player we are after, may not see us as their ideal move, we are seemingly after top players, players who currently may think they're above is because of two atrocious seasons and players wanting out. We shall see if the patience game wins for us, don't get me wrong, if this squad isn't improved by 2/9/16 I'll be fuming like most.

Mate, how many times have we seen/heard: "Well, we were after 'x' , but..." ?

Players are as much moolah orientated as they are ambitious. They'll all say they want PL football - Well I don't know of any other PL teams after Carvalho or Witsel or Mata. Sure foreign clubs might want them, but we're meant to have had bid(s) accepted - aren't we?

If they don't want to sign then we move on and go after the next fella, before it's too late and we end up paying over the odds on some panic buy at the last minute.