Ronald Koeman discussion

[Frank Gallagher]

Effectively yes, alternatively the accountants way, don't gamble too much with money, know the price things are worth and stick to your business plan

if only the premier league were like that tho ayyy....

 

[davek]

Unlike most businesses etc football has a clear defined point to judge on investment, if by the start of the season and maybe moreso the end of the window, we have not significantly improved the squad - and much as it shouldnt matter - it does - we dont have a very sizeable net spend, then questions need to be asked about how everything was handled and IF we really tried as hard as we could to fulfill the stated ambitions of 'making a huge statement'

Precisely mate. It's time now for big words to be backed up with actions.

 

[bluestevon]

Stones isn't on major wages' therefore his sale won't reduce the current wage bill tenfold. We have been 'promised' this 100m to spend this summer - so far spend 13 if you include Koeman's compo - which hasn't looked remotely like becoming a reality. We're afraid to pay over the odds for a player as a risk, just like always. Guarantee if Stones leave, we'll replace him with two players and still come away with a profit.

Stones is on 30k pw mate

I am of the opinion that when he leaves he will,be raplces with Willaims for 12m or so, and another cb for at most 15-20m (and that will likely be an overpayment)

 

[ianefc]

We have blown Juve out in terms off the bid to Zenit mate, have we really blown them out the water in terms of salary package though?

Suppose it depends on if we offer 120k they offer 105-110k and someone regards that as blowing out the water, i wouldnt personally

If Juve offered 100k pw and we offered 150-160k he'd be wearing the shirt right now

We don't know that and dependant on the stance of the individual posters they will choose to look at that in a positive or negative light. If he chooses Juve on a lesser wage, in reality he should be commended for not grabbing the cash.

Also to give any one player double our current top wage will pose a huge risk to the squads spirit.

 

[orly]

He won't resign, for one thing he'd be in serious breach of contract and his reputation would take a battering. He didn't get the job because things were great at Everton, before he arrived. Yes its disappointing that the signings haven't happened, yet. But it can't just be because we haven't tried. We're trying to shop in the market were the Champions League teams are. It took City a couple of years to get to the situation were they signed the bigger names. Every club in the league has money, now. Transfer deals are now such big business deals that they take weeks not days to sort. I think a lot of deals start before the last season even finishes. The club has under gone a massive change, in the back room and at ownership level.

Then we go to the players, we already have. They've had three years of being under a Manager, who wanted to play in a way that's only possible to play if you have Barcelona's first eleven. A manager who didn't have a plan B, I could go on. It will take time for the players to adapt to the new managers way of doing things. Even Jose at Man Utd, did an interview saying it would be easier to have a full squad of new players than, get his team to change its been coached to play over the past few seasons. (On talk sport earlier). Ronald has also had to assess his squad and work out who needs changing. The fact he hasn't given five players squad numbers, show's he isn't that worried about squad numbers and the club isn't worried about the money. They are effectively getting paid just to sit around at the moment.

I'm sure (I hope) that things will look a bit better by the end of the month.

Robinho signed for city in abar one day.

They signed Nigel De Jong in the January and he had a huge reputation.

following summer (their first full one after takeover) they signed Tevez and Adebayor.

Summer after that Toure, Balotelli, Silva.

Hardly years at all.

 

[bluestevon]

We don't know that and dependant on the stance of the individual posters they will choose to look at that in a positive or negative light. If he chooses Juve on a lesser wage, in reality he should be commended for not grabbing the cash.

Also to give any one player double our current top wage will pose a huge risk to the squads spirit.

Not neccesarily though mate, because what we have to remember is a lot of a players earnings these days come through commercial and sponsorship packages available to them on top of the basica club wage.

We may make an offer that blows them out the water in terms of his wage packet, but are we considering how much more he will earn through other sources by playing for Juve instead of us?

When thats factored in i am suspecting that the blown out the water figure would not look very much different at all to what he'd earn in total at both clubs.

Yup the squad spirit can be damaged, but flipside, what squad spirit do we actually have and maybe it can be the incentive for certain players to actaully play a bit better knowing that a contract for those good enough is there?

Mori is on 40k pw atm, Jegielka i believe 60k pw, Willaims been reports around 100k offer or so ( i think) so say a Koulibaly comes in - and we have bid by all acocounts, then wed be offering him say 120-130k pw? you think that signign him for 170k pw would impact team morale more than signing him for 130k pw would do?

I honestly dont think it would make a difference - but what it would do is massively increase the chance of signing the player

 

[ianefc]

I'm sorry, but when people are promised a new dawn and a reboot and a new way of doing things then all excuses from the past (which that ^^^^ is) become redundant. It simply won't wash if this new regime want the confidence and respect of supporters. If they couldn't manage a decent summer investment programme then don't promise it or imply it or get your mates in the media to imply that for you.

I agree with you, but I'm holding on the fine until the end of this window, it needs a strong net spend. If we sell stones and purchase £50m worth of players that won't wash.

I'm convinced they are trying, I'm convinced we are after players that currently earn good money and are at CL clubs, it's not easy, the closer we get to the end of the window the more attractive we will become.

Ideal world we get business done early and the squad have a full pre-season together, like 06/07 we got Johnson, Howard and Lescott in early. We best Sheffield UTD, Spurs away (with 10-men) drew with someone then beat the RS 3-0 and Kenwright couldn't wait to get his fat face on TV to tell us how early business was key to the good start. But when you analyse that it was UTD's reserve keeper, A Palace striker and a Wolves defender.

I'm hoping the delay is because we are fishing in a more elite pond, the richest club in world football (Madrid) haven't signed anyone and UTD have took 3 weeks shy of a millennium to sign Pogba and they still haven't.

2nd September and no improvement them I'm with you, no doubt.

 

[Darth Toffeeman]

Robinho signed for city in abar one day.

They signed Nigel De Jong in the January and he had a huge reputation.

following summer (their first full one after takeover) they signed Tevez and Adebayor.

Summer after that Toure, Balotelli, Silva.

Hardly years at all.

He thought he was joining United. Intelligent man is Robinho.

City threw about 250m down the toilet to finally get somewhere.

FFP makes that impossible now and I would be a bit uncomfortable with seeing new versions of Adebayor, Santa Cruz and Wayne Bridge stealing a living off us.

It is going to take time and that is always the biggest obstacle and enemy in the world of football where instant gratification is a must ( I want to win every single game too, I am one of worst at losing gracefully too, so it pains me to think this way, but it is for the best long term).

 

[ianefc]

Not neccesarily though mate, because what we have to remember is a lot of a players earnings these days come through commercial and sponsorship packages available to them on top of the basica club wage.

We may make an offer that blows them out the water in terms of his wage packet, but are we considering how much more he will earn through other sources by playing for Juve instead of us?

When thats factored in i am suspecting that the blown out the water figure would not look very much different at all to what he'd earn in total at both clubs.

Yup the squad spirit can be damaged, but flipside, what squad spirit do we actually have and maybe it can be the incentive for certain players to actaully play a bit better knowing that a contract for those good enough is there?

Mori is on 40k pw atm, Jegielka i believe 60k pw, Willaims been reports around 100k offer or so ( i think) so say a Koulibaly comes in - and we have bid by all acocounts, then wed be offering him say 120-130k pw? you think that signign him for 170k pw would impact team morale more than signing him for 130k pw would do?

I honestly dont think it would make a difference - but what it would do is massively increase the chance of signing the player

Surely your penultimate paragraph should offer hope of what we are trying to do.

 

[Toffee-nerd]

From what the esk is saying, who I believe 100%, we have agreed a fee for witsel. A record fee for the club. It seems koeman has money to spend, it's just a slow market at the moment. Look how long it's taking united to sign pogba. Yeah there are reasons to be concerned with the amount of players we've released and pre season performances but let's just wait and see what position we are in at the end of the window before the bleach comes out.

Koemans biggest task is to replace the dead wood in the squad with real quality, he's on with that releasing a number of non starters. Now he's got 3 weeks to get some quality in. Our first 11 is solid, I think we will be fine against spurs who have also had a bad preseason results wise, other than battering a weakened inter side in the second half on Friday. As is nearly always the case in transfer windows the quality players will become more accessible towards the end of the window as clubs get on with their business. It seems Koeman has the backing, it's getting the players across the line which is the struggle, something that should improve towards the end of the window.

 

[bluestevon]

Surely your penultimate paragraph should offer hope of what we are trying to do.

Only if it succeeds mate, otherwise it's about as effective as a phantom bid in reality. You want the players of that quality then you have to be willing to pay what it takes for your club to get them (not what it would take united, juve etc to get that player) if that makes sense, if we dont get them and they have had an interest (which by not pulling out immediately then they obviously have) then it means you are not willing to spend whats required to get what tou wanted

 

[ianefc]

Robinho signed for city in abar one day.

They signed Nigel De Jong in the January and he had a huge reputation.

following summer (their first full one after takeover) they signed Tevez and Adebayor.

Summer after that Toure, Balotelli, Silva.

Hardly years at all.

Should be noted if the window was closing in 48 hrs we'd be busier and players wouldn't have time to be picky, City were taken over and purchased Robinho on the day the window closed. Players in today's market still have another 3 1/2 weeks to decide, we have in effect a Winters window worth of time to get deals done.

 

[orly]

He thought he was joining United. Intelligent mam is Robinho.

City through about 250m down the toilet to finally get somewhere.

FFP makes that impossible now and I would be a bit uncomfortable with seeing new versions of Adebayor, Santa Cruz and Wayne Bridge stealing a living off us.

It is going to take time and that is always the biggest obstacle and enemy in the world of football where instant gratification is a must ( I want to win every single game too, I am one of worst at losing gracefully too, so it pains me to think this way, but it is for the best long term).

Nah, he made a slip in a press conference. Nothing major.

£250m 'down the toilet'?? They won the league in four seasons after takeover and twice in the 7/8 seasons since the takeover. Plus FA Cups. Arguably, we toilet £80m+ on wages a season to win absolute sweet FA. Further, if you look at the signings (available here http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...sour-spent-719-1million-seven-years-club.html ) they only started regularly wasting money AFTER they first won the league.

It's not about instant gratification - it's about seeing a squad that has finished 11th twice in a row improving markedly, and this so-far disingenuous marketing campaign the club have used to shift tickets having some truth in it.

Is Gueye a massive improvement? Hmm, not convinced. Is Stekelenburg? Not really. Would Williams be? Yes, but not if it means Stones is leaving.

We've currently got no number one goalkeeper, one fit and decent centreforward,and a hell of a lot of deadwood. 'Nothing will be the same' is a bit wishful!

 

[ianefc]

Only if it succeeds mate, otherwise it's about as effective as a phantom bid in reality. You want the players of that quality then you have to be willing to pay what it takes for your club to get them (not what it would take united, juve etc to get that player) if that makes sense, if we dont get them and they have had an interest (which by not pulling out immediately then they obviously have) then it means you are not willing to spend whats required to get what tou wanted

I guess my point is that non of our bids have failed yet. All the 'big' names linked haven't joined other clubs yet. Still time. They get until the end of this window before my fume.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

Should be noted if the window was closing in 48 hrs we'd be busier and players wouldn't have time to be picky, City were taken over and purchased Robinho on the day the window closed. Players in today's market still have another 3 1/2 weeks to decide, we have in effect a Winters window worth of time to get deals done.

does our season start next weekend or at the end of the window then?