Ronald Koeman discussion

[Stan Lee Park]

Could you not see the marked improvement in the last two games Khal?

When Koeman's system has taken shape this season, we've looked good - or at least were winning games.

So yes, it's a work in progress, and the squad needs a huge lift.

I can't believe you - as such a sound poster - were so ready to jump on the guy's back.

Regardless of pay packet, he needs to be given time. Walsh needs to be given time, and so does Moshiri.

We have made progress in the sense that when our last manager left us, we were 13th.

He made us a mid-table side, and it's going to take more than 1 window - where we had a poor transfer policy even though the players that have been brought in have, on the whole, improved us - and 16 games to change that.

A marked improvement in the last two games? There is no plan, no organisation, a readiness to use the long ball almost endlessly. What was different in the Arsenal game is that we got in their faces and muscled the usual Arsenal wusses out of their stride. It didn't work last night and it can't work in every game.
We are playing an awful, sterile non-football style which is horrible to watch. There is no cohesion as we are playing like a bunch of strangers.
Koeman has been in place for more than 5 months, close on half a season and an unsuccessful campaign in the EFL cup (19 games not including pre-season). Yes he needs time, but my concern is that if the next 5 months are anything like the previous 5 then it will be too late for Koeman or anyone else to do much about it.

 

[Zatara]

Klopp arrived at Liverpool when they were 8th.

They finished 8th.

They have spent £150mil, on top of the £200mil that Rodgers spent.

So give it time. Give it more than one window.

Nobody is pleased Khal, but it's a work in progress. We're still more than capable of finishing where we targetted this season, which as Koeman pointed out in his first presser, is top 7.

Koeman had a preseason...Klopp did not.

 

[Zatara]

A marked improvement in the last two games? There is no plan, no organisation, a readiness to use the long ball almost endlessly. What was different in the Arsenal game is that we got in their faces and muscled the usual Arsenal wusses out of their stride. It didn't work last night and it can't work in every game.
We are playing an awful, sterile non-football style which is horrible to watch. There is no cohesion as we are playing like a bunch of strangers.
Koeman has been in place for more than 5 months, close on half a season and an unsuccessful campaign in the EFL cup (19 games not including pre-season). Yes he needs time, but my concern is that if the next 5 months are anything like the previous 5 then it will be too late for Koeman or anyone else to do much about it.

Indeed...for me, this 'great' Arsenal game and 'good' 20mins against liverpool means a lot of running around...then doing nothing much with the ball...getting one or two chances a game isnt exciting to me nor is long balling.

Im not excited by the prospect of seeing 6ft+ well built blokes being signed either to add 'power' and "pressing"...

 

[ijjysmith]

This was never going to be a quick fix and it's important to remember that.

I've just read a wise man say, we've been crap for nigh on 20 years now, so if it takes 2 or so more years for Koeman, Walsh and Moshiri to sort it what difference does it make?

And I agree with that.

I fully understand things look poor right now. But why wouldn't they? We were really really bad last season. If the season had gone on much longer we'd have been in even deeper poop than we were already. I don't get why it should all be sorted in what, 6 months?

I've taken a step back and think I'm happy (well not happy, but will settle for) for this season being the typical 'transition' season. It might even take a bit longer, than this season.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Not hard ... we had no quality last night.
After 20 minutes, I couldn't see any tactics at all bar lump it to the big man up top or if you can't see him, boot it out.
It was just awful

Disagree. Barring the first 5mins we were playing well , pressing them , and had them rattled. Mccarthy's loss coupled with the decision to replace him with the woeful Barry, allowed them to claim the initiative and from then on their better quality made the result almost inevitable.

 

[Stan Lee Park]

Disagree. Barring the first 5mins we were playing well , pressing them , and had them rattled. Mccarthy's loss coupled with the decision to replace him with the woeful Barry, allowed them to claim the initiative and from then on their better quality made the result almost inevitable.

They played football (in the second half at least) and we didn't.
The gulf in quality and organisation on the field was embarrassing.
McCarthy's injury didn't help, but to blame Barry for that dismal second half show is to ignore some very basic failings in our team and the way in which it is being mismanaged.

 

[Lowste]

We dont really. We have some with good ability. Ability is useless without knowing what to do with it.

I know it doesnt happen this way but genuinely I would keep about 3 of this lot.

Interested to know what 3

 

[Lanolin]

I don't think the last 2 games have been an 'improvement' at all. We've battled, but we usually do against these sides. It was no different to the spurs game earlier in the season really - a lot of energy and effort but virtually no quality.

Occasionally, snarling and digging in will work. Usually, it won't. If we'd played the same style of football as last night against Watford and Swansea we still wouldn't have won, as we never attempted to actually create anything. I therefore don't see it as an improvement at all.

 

[mkrudden]

I don't think the last 2 games have been an 'improvement' at all. We've battled, but we usually do against these sides. It was no different to the spurs game earlier in the season really - a lot of energy and effort but virtually no quality.

Occasionally, snarling and digging in will work. Usually, it won't. If we'd played the same style of football as night against Watford and Swansea we still wouldn't have won, as we never attempted to actually create anything. I therefore don't see it as an improvement at all.

Agree wholeheartedly

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Indeed...for me, this 'great' Arsenal game and 'good' 20mins against liverpool means a lot of running around...then doing nothing much with the ball...getting one or two chances a game isnt exciting to me nor is long balling.

Im not excited by the prospect of seeing 6ft+ well built blokes being signed either to add 'power' and "pressing"...

But whether you like it or not power and pressing are an integral part of the game and always were. It's no good having a team of fey wingers shimmying their way endlessly round the pitch only to get felled by 6ft well built defenders before they get a sniff of goal either. Both those elements make a team. It's that blend teams pursue.

 

[Stan Lee Park]

I don't think the last 2 games have been an 'improvement' at all. We've battled, but we usually do against these sides. It was no different to the spurs game earlier in the season really - a lot of energy and effort but virtually no quality.

Occasionally, snarling and digging in will work. Usually, it won't. If we'd played the same style of football as last night against Watford and Swansea we still wouldn't have won, as we never attempted to actually create anything. I therefore don't see it as an improvement at all.

Spot on.

 

[d4kyxx]

Anyone who expects this squad to be massively overhauled in January and the summer need to re assess they're thinking

We will struggle to replace who needs to be and there is unlikely to be any money available unless we sell the deadwood that is around which I doubt will even start until the summer

The fact Barry has had his deal extended shows we are unlikely to bring major signings in. The 95 songs will continue until older players and dead wood are let go but this club wants to pursue the art of being tight

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

I don't think the last 2 games have been an 'improvement' at all. We've battled, but we usually do against these sides. It was no different to the spurs game earlier in the season really - a lot of energy and effort but virtually no quality.

Occasionally, snarling and digging in will work. Usually, it won't. If we'd played the same style of football as last night against Watford and Swansea we still wouldn't have won, as we never attempted to actually create anything. I therefore don't see it as an improvement at all.

Probably because the one thing we've lacked for years is a consistent , creative player .

 

[Zatara]

But whether you like it or not power and pressing are an integral part of the game and always were. It's no good having a team of fey wingers shimmying their way endlessly round the pitch only to get felled by 6ft well built defenders before they get a sniff of goal either. Both those elements make a team. It's that blend teams pursue.

Looking at the 'tactics' and the 'catchphrases' Koeman is using...

Big stong lads running around pressing
Direct play

This to me means wimbledon (at an extreme)...

I would prefer power and pace and guile...but lets see.

 

[Prevenger17]

It didn't work last night and it can't work in every game.

It was working up until McCarthy went off. We didn't give them a sniff and, if it wasn't for Lukaku and Barkley's complete ineptitude with the ball at their feet, we might have even had an effort on goal.