Ronald Koeman discussion

[davek]

IS it his biggest job - hmm arguable isn't it really, he has managed two teams that where power houses of European football in times gone by (Ajax and Benfica) and one team that more recently than us has been winning leagues in a top league (Valencia) and was contesting European cup finals mate, so actually no we aren't his biggest job, he has managed 3 clubs (4 if you include PSV) that could argue the toss about that really, pretty sure all those teams supporters think they are bigger than Everton

Is the football any worse than the majority of the last 18 months under Martinez, no, and thats coming from match going blues who actually prefer what they are seeing now over what they endured under Martinez - yanno why, because they aren't daft enough to fail to realise that we are less than half a season into a manager whose entire methods are different than the prior one and who ahs been left a collection of players on the downside of their careeres or broken prospect types that OFM seemed to excel in collecting

Was the Derby performance a disgrace, depends mate, was it worse than this?

Possession Home46% Away54% Shots Home 6 Away 17 Shots on Target Home 1 Away 6 Corners Home 3 Away 6 Fouls Home 11 Away 7

Martinez second home derby when we played horrendously and bar the luck of a crossbar would have lost 1-0 to Ibe's strike, so can we have your opinion on the 0-0 that season mate, was the performance under Martinez a disgrace? can always go into the vaults to verify your answer matches with what you said at the time

Those teams you mentioned weren't big jobs...big clubs? Yes. But not big jobs. They all were teams that are nearly always at the top end of their own leagues. The next manager in is there to keep the plate spinning. That's all. The Southampton team were totally different, and that's why he gets credit - yes, he was plate spinning again fro Pochettino who set the framework up, but he kicked on a few places in the PL. Here he's going to do things immediately a different way with a team that hasn't been a success prior to arriving, that's why it's his biggest job. And because he doesn't have the guile to adapt what he has in front of him he's making the job more difficult than it is.

The football being played: are you honestly saying that under Martinez we played worse football than this current manger is playing? Astounding if you are. Martinez went out and set up to play a controlled game of football - there was an observable PATTERN. Koeman looks like he hasn't got a clue what he's setting up (and there are many many Evertonians who think the very same...as you well know).

You're trying to defend the indefensible here with some lame shout to the time period he's been here. Other managers new to clubs dont seem to have that problem though do they? Isn't Koeman supposed to be a 'step up' from what we've had in the past? Utterly laughable claim that one is turning out to be. He is 'kin rank on the evidence displayed so far. It's polishing a turd to deny that.

 

[dannyboy]

IS it his biggest job - hmm arguable isn't it really, he has managed two teams that where power houses of European football in times gone by (Ajax and Benfica) and one team that more recently than us has been winning leagues in a top league (Valencia) and was contesting European cup finals mate, so actually no we aren't his biggest job, he has managed 3 clubs (4 if you include PSV) that could argue the toss about that really, pretty sure all those teams supporters think they are bigger than Everton

Is the football any worse than the majority of the last 18 months under Martinez, no, and thats coming from match going blues who actually prefer what they are seeing now over what they endured under Martinez - yanno why, because they aren't daft enough to fail to realise that we are less than half a season into a manager whose entire methods are different than the prior one and who ahs been left a collection of players on the downside of their careeres or broken prospect types that OFM seemed to excel in collecting

Was the Derby performance a disgrace, depends mate, was it worse than this?

Possession Home46% Away54% Shots Home 6 Away 17 Shots on Target Home 1 Away 6 Corners Home 3 Away 6 Fouls Home 11 Away 7

Martinez second home derby when we played horrendously and bar the luck of a crossbar would have lost 1-0 to Ibe's strike, so can we have your opinion on the 0-0 that season mate, was the performance under Martinez a disgrace? can always go into the vaults to verify your answer matches with what you said at the time

That was absolutely awful. Whilst we did lose some excellent games of football under Martinez it shouldn't be forgotten there were plenty of abject defeats thrown in there too.

 

[davek]

Trouble with this sort of hyperbolex is that you soon run out of words. If Monday's performance was a disgrace, how would you characterise last season's 4-0 Derby hammering, where they actually went easy on us? Doubleplusungood disgrace?

No, it was poor. But how does being able to say the same about previous derby performances excuse in any way shape or form the dross served up by a manager supposedly a cut above what went before him?

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Then you have a very short memory. Even in the last two mediocre seasons Everton were noted by most in the game as a team that could get on the ball and play some very nice football. No one is ever going to say the same about this ugly Everton team Koeman is intent on putting together. We are in a bracket now with the likes of Palace, Watford and West Brom - teams that pay very little attention to the movement of the ball.

It's 'kin atrocious.

Regardless of what other people said of us ,we were losing too many games and that's poor football for me. This team has been allowed to deteriorate since Moyes final season . Ageing and departing players have been replaced by poor quality. We have reached a point where we need a fairly major rebuild.
I wanted Kendall out back in the day ,I was wrong. If I'd been a Manc I'd have been calling for Fergusons head again wrongly. Age and experience tells me to be patient.
You should rein in the hyperbole ,you make some valid and salient observations, but they are getting obscured by your constant stream of vitriolic hatred towards our current manager.

 

[dannyboy]

Those teams you mentioned weren't big jobs...big clubs? Yes. But not big jobs. They all were teams that are nearly always at the top end of their own leagues. The next manager in is there to keep the plate spinning. That's all. The Southampton team were totally different, and that's why he gets credit - yes, he was plate spinning again fro Pochettino who set the framework up, but he kicked on a few places in the PL. Here he's going to do things immediately a different way with a team that hasn't been a success prior to arriving, that's why it's his biggest job. And because he doesn't have the guile to adapt what he has in front of him he's making the job more difficult than it is.

The football being played: are you honestly saying that under Martinez we played worse football than this current manger is playing? Astounding if you are. Martinez went out and set up to play a controlled game of football - there was an observable PATTERN. Koeman looks like he hasn't got a clue what he's setting up (and there are many many Evertonians who think the very same...as you well know).

You're trying to defend the indefensible here with some lame shout to the time period he's been here. Other managers new to clubs dont seem to have that problem though do they? Isn't Koeman supposed to be a 'step up' from what we've had in the past? Utterly laughable claim that one is turning out to be. He is 'kin rank on the evidence displayed so far. It's polishing a turd to deny that.

Considering Koeman hasn't got a clue/any pattern to the team's play then it's amazing we're in the same position as we were this time last year...

From this point Martinez went onto win 1 game between now and February in the league so it's highly likely we'll be doing better. So at least we're heading in the right direction hey...

 

[squonk]

looks like Ronky's No 1 hater is back.

but OK that's football.

 

[hktoffee]

Those teams you mentioned weren't big jobs...big clubs? Yes. But not big jobs. They all were teams that are nearly always at the top end of their own leagues. The next manager in is there to keep the plate spinning. That's all. The Southampton team were totally different, and that's why he gets credit - yes, he was plate spinning again fro Pochettino who set the framework up, but he kicked on a few places in the PL. Here he's going to do things immediately a different way with a team that hasn't been a success prior to arriving, that's why it's his biggest job. And because he doesn't have the guile to adapt what he has in front of him he's making the job more difficult than it is.

The football being played: are you honestly saying that under Martinez we played worse football than this current manger is playing? Astounding if you are. Martinez went out and set up to play a controlled game of football - there was an observable PATTERN. Koeman looks like he hasn't got a clue what he's setting up (and there are many many Evertonians who think the very same...as you well know).

You're trying to defend the indefensible here with some lame shout to the time period he's been here. Other managers new to clubs dont seem to have that problem though do they? Isn't Koeman supposed to be a 'step up' from what we've had in the past? Utterly laughable claim that one is turning out to be. He is 'kin rank on the evidence displayed so far. It's polishing a turd to deny that.

If this does not generate results it's just pile of crap. What's the point of having 60% on pocession when you can't even hold on to a win? Just to impress the neutral and thus labelling the team as "the entertainer" after losing 3-4 in a game? Points are not won through style of play.

 

[dannyboy]

If this does not generate results it's just pile of crap. What's the point of having 60% on pocession when you can't even hold on to a win? Just to impress the neutral and thus labelling the team as "the entertainer" after losing 3-4 in a game? Points are not won through style of play.

Don't forget all the games where we were just awful as well, of which there were plenty.

 

[davek]

Regardless of what other people said of us ,we were losing too many games and that's poor football for me. This team has been allowed to deteriorate since Moyes final season . Ageing and departing players have been replaced by poor quality. We have reached a point where we need a fairly major rebuild.
I wanted Kendall out back in the day ,I was wrong. If I'd been a Manc I'd have been calling for Fergusons head again wrongly. Age and experience tells me to be patient.
You should rein in the hyperbole ,you make some valid and salient observations, but they are getting obscured by your constant stream of vitriolic hatred towards our current manager.

The high point for that group of players was when Moyes left and Martinez stepped in and took therm to another level. Let that never be forgotten.

What Koeman has done in his takeover is breathtakingly bad by comparison: he's taken an underperforming unconfident group of players...and made them WORSE!

Now that could change over time and I expect it will if he wants to keep his job. But what's in front of our noses right now is what's being assessed - and it's putrid.

 

[davek]

Considering Koeman hasn't got a clue/any pattern to the team's play then it's amazing we're in the same position as we were this time last year...

From this point Martinez went onto win 1 game between now and February in the league so it's highly likely we'll be doing better. So at least we're heading in the right direction hey...

Mate, you know as well as I do that this league is 'kin dire beyond about 7 clubs. To be 9th is poor. 11th gets you the sack at this club these days. So take that as your rule of thumb.

 

[Kev The Rat]

If this does not generate results it's just pile of crap. What's the point of having 60% on pocession when you can't even hold on to a win? Just to impress the neutral and thus labelling the team as "the entertainer" after losing 3-4 in a game? Points are not won through style of play.

I think the issue is the comparison is valid if we accept that Koeman's results are no better than Martinez - and they aren't.

 

[davek]

If this does not generate results it's just pile of crap. What's the point of having 60% on pocession when you can't even hold on to a win? Just to impress the neutral and thus labelling the team as "the entertainer" after losing 3-4 in a game? Points are not won through style of play.

My point, as you well know, is that we had a method of playing football that was recognisable. It did very well for us first season under RM, then it wasn't adapted enough in his final two seasons to repel our opponents who were onto it. Lack of adaptation rather than lack of style/approach was Martinez's downfall. Koeman doesn't even have a method. Klopp had it spot on: we play "wild" football: unthinking and crude - not befitting this club.

 

[dannyboy]

Mate, you know as well as I do that this league is 'kin dire beyond about 7 clubs. To be 9th is poor. 11th gets you the sack at this club these days. So take that as your rule of thumb.

Yeah, the league is dire and we all know we're not playing well right now. See what the second half of the season brings.

Martinez got the sack because it was two years of garbage with no signs that it was getting better. Strong end to last season and he'd still have this job.

 

[davek]

Yeah, the league is dire and we all know we're not playing well right now. See what the second half of the season brings.

Martinez got the sack because it was two years of garbage with no signs that it was getting better. Strong end to last season and he'd still have this job.

A cup win would have saved his job too. It's all fine margins and perception.

 

[strummer]

Dave I'm a big fan of your work on this forum but you keep repeating that we played attractive football under martinez. You couldn't be more wrong about that in my opinion. That slow sideways possession football sent goodison to sleep and tragically ended my 10 year old son from wanting to go the match.
I think we're all agreed that the current football isn't good enough but it's quite obvious who he's trying to get rid of and time will tell if his replacements are any better.