Ronald Koeman discussion

[Goat]

My question is simple on that score:

If Moyes first season in charge got us in the top 5 for most of the season and then falling away to 7th...with a really tripe squad;
and if Martinez came in first season and had us 5th playing in a manner that we all found a joy to watch....why are we excusing Koeman in his first season?

Isnt 7th the same as 7th? With regards Moyes, he took over a terrible team and got them to 7th, which seems to be what Koeman will do.

Martinez took over a team that finished 6th and took it to 5th.

Koeman will take over a team in 11th to 7th, ish.

Seems good enough for me.

7th certainly wont be the target next season, but then neither will be the 17th and 11th that Moyes and Martinez got in their 2nd season.

 

[bluestevon]

Isnt 7th the same as 7th? With regards Moyes, he took over a terrible team and got them to 7th, which seems to be what Koeman will do.

Martinez took over a team that finished 6th and took it to 5th.

Koeman will take over a team in 11th to 7th, ish.

Seems good enough for me.

7th certainly wont be the target next season, but then neither will be the 17th and 11th that Moyes and Koeman got in their 2nd season.

You been on the ale Goat, that post is all over the show, go go edit it

 

[roydo]

We got a game later right? Christmas/New Year knackers my body clock.

 

[davek]

11th then 12th, facts and you are ignoring them. You are blaming Koeman for the style of football you don't like because this was a squad that finished 5th three seasons ago. Yes 3 and you choose to completely ignore what happened in 2014/2015 and 2015/2016 seasons.

I dont ignore it at all. How can I? It's history and it's the reason he had to go. He lost the dressing room.

But how does that finger pointing at Martinez improve Koeman's stature here at Everton though? It doesn't. I judge him not him in relation to Martinez or whomever. And I find him appalling. He needs to convince me and a whole lot of others he isn't a giant mirage of a manager getting by on a stellar playing career.

 

[Goat]

You been on the ale Goat, that post is all over the show, go go edit it

Hahaha, I did mate.

Missus talking to me, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[hktoffee]

I dont ignore it at all. How can I? It's history and it's the reason he had to go. He lost the dressing room.

But how does that finger pointing at Martinez improve Koeman's stature here at Everton though? It doesn't. I judge him not him in relation to whomever. And I find him appalling. He needs to convince me and a whole lot of others he isn't a giant mirage of a manager getting by on a stellar playing career.

At least give him time and money. If he is not doing his job adquately then he won't be here after 3 seasons, like Martinez.

 

[davek]

The difference is that Martinez had many transfer windows to sort us out and the football degressed each season. Koeman hasn't had a chance yet - Martinez had three seasons.

I made the point above to Goat that both Moyes and Martinez hit the ground running after opening transfer windows that weren't exactly money laden.

I dont buy the argument he has to be here two seasons or even one. If he has it he has to start showing he has it. ATM all I see is a cave man mentality to management.

 

[Goat]

I made the point above to Goat that both Moyes and Martinez hit the ground running after opening transfer windows that weren't exactly money laden.

I dont buy the argument he has to be here two seasons or even one. If he has it he has to start showing he has it. ATM all I see is a cave man mentality to management.

Hit the ground running?

They finished 7th and 5th, places that only 4 pages ago you said showed no ambition.

Go and have a lie down Dave.

 

[davek]

Those goalposts you keep having to pick up and carry to a new spot must be getting heavy though by now

But you answered anyway, you are going on record as saying at least during that period of 12 games, martinez was playing the Everton way? Correct?

No mate. I said 'at least trying to'. And he did always try to play positive enlightened football on the deck...unlike the Dutch Pulis.

 

[ianefc]

My question is simple on that score:

If Moyes first season in charge got us in the top 5 for most of the season and then falling away to 7th...with a really tripe squad;
and if Martinez came in first season and had us 5th playing in a manner that we all found a joy to watch....why are we excusing Koeman in his first season?

Too simplistic to look at it like that.

You have to consider the standard of other teams in the league.

Moyes got 7th without City to contend with. Martinez got 5th when UTD and Spurs were that bad they had to fire their manager during the season. This season so far the expected top 6 is exactly as expected, even by yourself. Non of their managers are at risk of being sacked, with the possible exception of Wenger not getting a new deal and we beat them.

 

[davek]

Mate you can't have it both ways. So the good thing about the first season was down to Martinez but the failure in his 2nd and 3rd were down to the players?

...how on earth did you conclude that out of what I posted? Unreal.

 

[davek]

Read it as you made your mind up before he put a side out. Like I said, would credit you with enough nouse to let a bloke show what he can do.

I do. But I'm not having the kid gloves treatment on a manager feted as a great one and with the resources at hand to prove it...and he's doing the exact opposite.

Hand on heart: I wanted Koeman in the summer - now I wished we'd gone for a chance on Flavre, currently tearing up the French league.

 

[hktoffee]

...how on earth did you conclude that out of what I posted? Unreal.

Cool. So you admitted Martinez was to blame for his own downfall (partcially anyway) not the players?

 

[davek]

Isnt 7th the same as 7th? With regards Moyes, he took over a terrible team and got them to 7th, which seems to be what Koeman will do.

Martinez took over a team that finished 6th and took it to 5th.

Koeman will take over a team in 11th to 7th, ish.

Seems good enough for me.

7th certainly wont be the target next season, but then neither will be the 17th and 11th that Moyes and Martinez got in their 2nd season.

Mate, there's no way Koeman has taken this team to another level in his first season as both Moyes and Martinez did.

You're sitting there watching this muck. If you can hand on heart say that you say to yourself exiting the ground that we've stepped onto a higher plain then I'll be astounded.

 

[davek]

Hit the ground running?

They finished 7th and 5th, places that only 4 pages ago you said showed no ambition.

Go and have a lie down Dave.

Did either Moyes or Roberto in those first few seasons ever think that it was enough? Moyes in his early period here talked about challenging for the title...as did RM.

Ronald Van Pulis is just setting a low bar so he cant be judged.