Ronald Koeman discussion

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Good call Zat , but other contributing factors need to considered, not least RK manages a team with at least 4 or possibly 5 of the best players (in their positions) in the PL (Bainsey, Seamus, Ross, Rom and Super Kev).
Thus, given the talent available to big Ron compared to 'honest' Tony's WBA outfit, you might say Pulis slightly edges him in any 'best manager in the world' contest.
I suspect your blue tinted glasses have clouded your judgement here Zat...

You try so hard to be @Moomin or @Bungle but sorry you just do not pull it off, very boring, very boring indeed.
 
WOW I feel so inferior
I don't mean it as a criticism, it's just a truth. Some people just look and say win = good, clean sheet = good defending etc, others look more into what actually happened. Same as some people are very interested in the commercial and financial side of things while others couldn't care less as long as the team is doing ok.

There's no right or wrong way of supporting Everton, I was just pointing out that people look at different things.
 

Is it better than playing beautiful football and having us 14th though?

I just called him the best manager in the world...

Anyone who can play such abysmal football and rely on long ball and still get their team to 7th place deserves a pat on the head in my book.
 
My view on Koeman is based upon him taking a Valencia side who were expected to break the 'big 2' monopoly in Spain and nearly relegating them...i didnt realise you put up an article on it (as well as me) but i enjoyed watching them at the time on the tv...he would have relegated them if they hadnt sacked him.

If you also look at his time at PSV and Ajax he did well initially and then had disasterous runs...AZ he was sacked after a few months and at Benfica they thought he was "a strange man".

Feyenoord he had no option but to play the kids and did extremely well with them...perhaps he is now playing Davies and Holgate in games as he also has no other options and they just happen to be better than the others at this time.

One thing to note with Koeman is that he will always play what he considers the best team for that game and the tactic he feels will get a result....thats ok short term but i dont think he has any long term goal or plans on developing players.

I reckon if we signed 2 centre mids (with his blessing)who were 27+ he would play them over davies even if they were very similar ability wise...

I think this window and in Jan we will see but for me he needs to play the young lads now when he can until the end of the season so we have (at the very least) free players to push out the donkeys in the squad so we can spend on 'big money' players to add to their base.

PSV - how did he have a disastrous run mate, he was their for just over 1 season - won the league in his only complete season in charge and then got head hunted by Valencia the following October - PSV went on to retain the title btw with Koemans team.

Feyenoord - as you say he was rbilliant at, arguably his greatest acheievement as a manager tbf.

Southampton - he was brilliant at, tok over a team guted both his seasons in charge and got them finishing higher and higher each season - and imprved on what Pocch did there as well.

Vitesse - done well and qualified foe Europe with an utter monnow

Ajax - won the league 2 out of his 3 full seaosns in charge, 4th season PSV had a blinding season and he payed the price for having a poor year. Overall - looking at his time in Ajax a comparrision could be made to how Mourinho and his tiem tends to go at a club, god three years then fourth season a bad one (given an abbrassive managerial style that can maybe be expected though unkless your Fergie)

AZ - he took over from a LVG at his peak, who at that time was a much better manager and more experienced - and AZ he couldnt get to reach that level that LVG had done, think from memory though the team was also basically gutted of all it's better players so was a poor choice to take them over mate.

Benfica - came third, won the cup, and reached the QF of the CL mate (losing to the winners Barca), and wasnt sacked but left to join PSV,

Valencia - the one job you can say was an unmitigated disater on his resume - but it was 9 years ago now, and he made the huge mistake of going head to head against a core of veteran players at the team and paid the price when they stopped playing for him, same situation happened with Chelsea last year with Mourinho and you saw the results of it mate.

As an interest the three players he wanted out the club which led to all the problems, one of them threathened to retire if he wasnt played every game, Canazres - he subsequently did at the end of the season when Valencia released him, another Abelda (the captain) sued the club to try to get out of his contract and publicly opened up on Koeman at a press conference (guven he was a huge fan favourite you can imagine how this turned the atmosphere poisonous with the fans for him) and Angulo who at that time in his career was basically finished as a player - went on to play one more season (badly) and only played about 15 games more before retiring.

As i said the situation seems very similar to the situation at Spurs when Pocch faced a split dressing room over the Adebeyor and Kane argument, only dfference being the majority of the Valencia team sided with the senior players (basically he badly misjudged the influence those 3 had) and Abelda was a cult here with them, meanwhilst at Spurs the fans got behind Pocc due to Kane and the younger spurs players backing

As an interesting point though heres a list of managers he has taken over from.

LVG - AZ
Hiddink- PSV
Trappatoni - Benfica
Pocc - Saints

some big boots to fill in each account there
 
I just called him the best manager in the world...

Anyone who can play such abysmal football and rely on long ball and still get their team to 7th place deserves a pat on the head in my book.

Simeone has his teams playing atrocious football and he's won the league and got to two CL finals so I think he's better than Koeman mert.
 

PSV - how did he have a disastrous run mate, he was their for just over 1 season - won the league in his only complete season in charge and then got head hunted by Valencia the following October - PSV went on to retain the title btw with Koemans team.

Feyenoord - as you say he was rbilliant at, arguably his greatest acheievement as a manager tbf.

Southampton - he was brilliant at, tok over a team guted both his seasons in charge and got them finishing higher and higher each season - and imprved on what Pocch did there as well.

Vitesse - done well and qualified foe Europe with an utter monnow

Ajax - won the league 2 out of his 3 full seaosns in charge, 4th season PSV had a blinding season and he payed the price for having a poor year. Overall - looking at his time in Ajax a comparrision could be made to how Mourinho and his tiem tends to go at a club, god three years then fourth season a bad one (given an abbrassive managerial style that can maybe be expected though unkless your Fergie)

AZ - he took over from a LVG at his peak, who at that time was a much better manager and more experienced - and AZ he couldnt get to reach that level that LVG had done, think from memory though the team was also basically gutted of all it's better players so was a poor choice to take them over mate.

Benfica - came third, won the cup, and reached the QF of the CL mate (losing to the winners Barca), and wasnt sacked but left to join PSV,

Valencia - the one job you can say was an unmitigated disater on his resume - but it was 9 years ago now, and he made the huge mistake of going head to head against a core of veteran players at the team and paid the price when they stopped playing for him, same situation happened with Chelsea last year with Mourinho and you saw the results of it mate.

As an interest the three players he wanted out the club which led to all the problems, one of them threathened to retire if he wasnt played every game, Canazres - he subsequently did at the end of the season when Valencia released him, another Abelda (the captain) sued the club to try to get out of his contract and publicly opened up on Koeman at a press conference (guven he was a huge fan favourite you can imagine how this turned the atmosphere poisonous with the fans for him) and Angulo who at that time in his career was basically finished as a player - went on to play one more season (badly) and only played about 15 games more before retiring.

As i said the situation seems very similar to the situation at Spurs when Pocch faced a split dressing room over the Adebeyor and Kane argument, only dfference being the majority of the Valencia team sided with the senior players (basically he badly misjudged the influence those 3 had) and Abelda was a cult here with them, meanwhilst at Spurs the fans got behind Pocc due to Kane and the younger spurs players backing

As an interesting point though heres a list of managers he has taken over from.

LVG - AZ
Hiddink- PSV
Trappatoni - Benfica
Pocc - Saints

some big boots to fill in each account there


Ajax -- Double first season / 3rd season also won...4th season 8 pts behind and quit in Feb after losing in Uefa Cup.

Note: Ajax had by far the best side in Holland, google their team!

Benfica-- Fans thought he was weird and he finished 3rd in a 3 horse race...won charity shield.

PSV -- Tanked the side Jan/Feb onwards and they were VERY lucky to win on the last day of the season with rivals losing at minnows to hand them the league.

Valencia -- It was David Albelda who was considered an experienced DM (like Barry) and still around the Spain side if im not wrong...Canizares and others were treated shamefully as he basically dropped them from the squad and didnt speak to them or phase them out + wouldnt allow them to leave so there were massive arguments with one or two asking to buy out their contracts. Hated and would have relegated them....never the same since his stint there and were my favourite spanish side to watch at the time.

AZ - just lol

Feyenoord -- Forced to play kids who actually had some great talents.

Southampton -- But ok. Almost sacked 12months ago.


Not exactly a great CV.
 
Simeone has his teams playing atrocious football and he's won the league and got to two CL finals so I think he's better than Koeman mert.

Not true....his teams arent bad to watch...all fire and passion with alot of talent + the defending is really eye opening.

Sometimes you can just enjoy watching passionate play. Their 3 young midfielders are also top class, we were linked with two of them ages ago.
 

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