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Ronald Koeman discussion

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bluestevon said:
Was he sakced at Southampton mate, or did he in fact lead them to there best ever top flight season bar none? Isn't a true test of a manager how they deal with adversity btw, Kendall and Ferguson both came within a game or two of being sacked

PSV - they where very lucky to win on the last day of the season? who cares mate, they won the league do you think any fan cares about luck when you win a title, was their rival btw the same Ajax who only two years earleir had what you desribed as by far the best side in Holland?

Benfica fans though he was wierd, who cares what they thought, maybe Benfica fans are the koppites of Portugal for all we know and wanted him on match day to turn up in a full kit with shinnies on, and you ignored him getting Benfica into the QF of the CL mate?

AZ - took over from one of the best managers in the world and lost some of their best players, and truly Zat i'm guessing like me you didn't watch too many Az games that season - or ever in fact.

Ajax - won 2 leagues in 3 years, the double in one, they had by far the best side in Holland did they, i am guessing it was also a very young side with aa lot of young players given starring roles by the manager mate? who was that manager who trusted in those young players again btw
? and did he instead of playing them go and buy 27yo players from rival dutch teams to avoid playing these kids?


Valencia - Canizares threathened to rtire if he was dropped mate - is that profesional - imagine if Southall had done that and went public with it, Abelda publicly criticised the mager in a press conference, layed into him for treatment of 'senior' players (basically looking out for there own) which IMO is the equivalent of Gerrard ripping into a current liverpool manager - we would have slaughtered him for it and rightly so, doing that proved to me that koeman was 100% correct for wanting him out the team, way too much influence and way too unprofessional doing that, christ a captain suing the club to be allowed to leave should have seen the club sell him first opportunit.
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Youre being very one sided here lol its almost like changing history with some of these points...its almost like you think he did brilliantly at southampton and then are changing history for the rest of his managerial career.

People were amazed he got the southampton job. Some thought it was a coup as he has a big name but many were surprised as his managerial career wasnt seen as successful whatsoever.

As for 'coming through adversity', fair enough, he kept his job 12months ago and then had a fantasic 2nd half of the season...cant deny that but again, there was a huge chance of him failing yet again only 12months ago. Theres no consistency in a positive season other than in Holland where he has also failed.

As for Valencia, they simply did what Baines practically did last season but had good reason to do so.
 
bluestevon said:
Was he sakced at Southampton mate, or did he in fact lead them to there best ever top flight season bar none? Isn't a true test of a manager how they deal with adversity btw, Kendall and Ferguson both came within a game or two of being sacked

PSV - they where very lucky to win on the last day of the season? who cares mate, they won the league do you think any fan cares about luck when you win a title, was their rival btw the same Ajax who only two years earleir had what you desribed as by far the best side in Holland?

Benfica fans though he was wierd, who cares what they thought, maybe Benfica fans are the koppites of Portugal for all we know and wanted him on match day to turn up in a full kit with shinnies on, and you ignored him getting Benfica into the QF of the CL mate?

AZ - took over from one of the best managers in the world and lost some of their best players, and truly Zat i'm guessing like me you didn't watch too many Az games that season - or ever in fact.

Ajax - won 2 leagues in 3 years, the double in one, they had by far the best side in Holland did they, i am guessing it was also a very young side with aa lot of young players given starring roles by the manager mate? who was that manager who trusted in those young players again btw
? and did he instead of playing them go and buy 27yo players from rival dutch teams to avoid playing these kids?


Valencia - Canizares threathened to rtire if he was dropped mate - is that profesional - imagine if Southall had done that and went public with it, Abelda publicly criticised the mager in a press conference, layed into him for treatment of 'senior' players (basically looking out for there own) which IMO is the equivalent of Gerrard ripping into a current liverpool manager - we would have slaughtered him for it and rightly so, doing that proved to me that koeman was 100% correct for wanting him out the team, way too much influence and way too unprofessional doing that, christ a captain suing the club to be allowed to leave should have seen the club sell him first opportunit.
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No.

Saints were pretty decent in the early 80s.

A few top six finishes.

The year we beat them in the semi final at Highbury they were big favourites to beat us as they were going strong and well in the title race, ultimately finishing second.
 

Zatara said:
Youre being very one sided here lol its almost like changing history with some of these points...its almost like you think he did brilliantly at southampton and then are changing history for the rest of his managerial career.

People were amazed he got the southampton job. Some thought it was a coup as he has a big name but many were surprised as his managerial career wasnt seen as successful whatsoever.

As for 'coming through adversity', fair enough, he kept his job 12months ago and then had a fantasic 2nd half of the season...cant deny that but again, there was a huge chance of him failing yet again only 12months ago. Theres no consistency in a positive season other than in Holland where he has also failed.

As for Valencia, they simply did what Baines practically did last season but had good reason to do so.
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It's called playing devils advocate Zat.

Am i in love with Koeman, far from it, do i think certain posters have gone to an extreme end of the scale to a ridiculous point - yup.

As for the Baines comparrision mate, far from it, one gave a written off the cuff interview when he criticised the teams chemistry, and that would include criticsm of himself and teamates as well as manager etc

the other publicly went on the offensive directly aimed at the manager and his treatment of senior players and calle dit disgraceful and an embarrasement in a press conference. Who subsequently sued the club he had been sicne an academy player in order to throw fuel onto the fire and to rile up the supporters against the manger, and it worked, that is the player power at it's worst.

and it's not changing history mate, because history is about all the facts - not just ohnes that suit a persons argument, did he fail at Ajax or PSV - 100% not, was he a perfect success there either - no, but was he a ver6y good manager for the times he was at both clubs - without question he was - 3 league tieles in 4 seasons, reaching a CL QF as well - yeah thats success in anyones eyes.

Turing around a season when it's gone to the dogs like it looked at Saints last year - for me showed me a huge amount, a lot of managers who have been rated very highly have failed to do that when finally tested mate - Mourinho being the most recent example, but also fat Rafael failed to do so as well

Questio though - do you rate Pocchetino as a manager? because exactly what you have done by looking at Koemans career through a prism could be done with his as well, and with all but a very very select few managers if the wish is there they can be viewed as failing everywhere
 
Khalekan said:
No.

Saints were pretty decent in the early 80s.

A few top six finishes.

The year we beat them in the semi final at Highbury they were big favourites to beat us as they were going strong and well in the title race, ultimately finishing second.
Click to expand...

Aye mate was thinking more about the 'current era' but misworded it a bit.

think it was 84 they came second to the rs wasnt it
 

bluestevon said:
It's called playing devils advocate Zat.

Am i in love with Koeman, far from it, do i think certain posters have gone to an extreme end of the scale to a ridiculous point - yup.

As for the Baines comparrision mate, far from it, one gave a written off the cuff interview when he criticised the teams chemistry, and that would include criticsm of himself and teamates as well as manager etc

the other publicly went on the offensive directly aimed at the manager and his treatment of senior players and calle dit disgraceful and an embarrasement in a press conference. Who subsequently sued the club he had been sicne an academy player in order to throw fuel onto the fire and to rile up the supporters against the manger, and it worked, that is the player power at it's worst.

and it's not changing history mate, because history is about all the facts - not just ohnes that suit a persons argument, did he fail at Ajax or PSV - 100% not, was he a perfect success there either - no, but was he a ver6y good manager for the times he was at both clubs - without question he was - 3 league tieles in 4 seasons, reaching a CL QF as well - yeah thats success in anyones eyes.

Turing around a season when it's gone to the dogs like it looked at Saints last year - for me showed me a huge amount, a lot of managers who have been rated very highly have failed to do that when finally tested mate - Mourinho being the most recent example, but also fat Rafael failed to do so as well

Questio though - do you rate Pocchetino as a manager? because exactly what you have done by looking at Koemans career through a prism could be done with his as well, and with all but a very very select few managers if the wish is there they can be viewed as failing everywhere
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The lads at valencia were dropped from the squad with zero discussion, one being club captain and another being a veteran but still a star player for them...the football was akin to what we are seeing now at Everton...with results like 3 odd wins in 16 games (deja-vu) and no wins in 10 (i think) 12 or so months ago at southampton.

In short, he did everything wrong there and those players you are dismissive of were returned to the team after he was sacked and they finished out of relegation 13th/15th i believe.

Also, what is this 3 titles in 4 seasons?
 

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