Ronald Koeman discussion

[fandjango]

I thought this was the Koeman thread not the "relative merits of pep vs Howe " thread

 

[Tony09]

Looking like he's turning it around a bit. Hopefully Moshiri and Walsh can do the same.

 

[njligernj]

Not one person has said 3 years of 7th will be a success. Once again, you're twisting things to suit your own obvious agenda.

Undeniably, 7th would be clear progress this season and hopefully even a return to Europe. If he manages that whilst still moulding the squad then he has done a good job. But next year, like all of us, i'd expect us to be much more serious challengers at the top end of the league.

Yes of course! The slow steady progress we are all familiar with seeing in the Premier League. We all remember the process Chelsea and Man City went through where one year it was top ten, then 8th, then 7th, then 5th, then 4th ... then a little snake (or "chute" ffs) down to 6th but then boom it's 3rd then 2nd and then finally you win the Prem after years of mostly steady progress.

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT ONE YEAR REPRESENTS IRREVERSIBLE PROGRESS.

We have zero recent examples of any setbacks after progress to 7th or higher.

IT'S UNDENIABLE that to finish 7th is progress for Everton football club.

Of course it's January so maybe we shouldn't count our chickens before the eggs have even been laid let alone hatched ... but hey I don't have to surrender reality at the door when visiting the internet.

This argument is devoid of even an ounce of logic and ten+ people liked it and almost nobody likes Davek's comments which initiated this comment. I used to think Davek was trolling this site but now I think this entire site is trolling Davek.

Years ago Davek complained about Moyes being the captain of Bill Kenwright's hole filled boat ... Bill Kenwright's Everton was more hole than boat! ... and yet 7th or so every year wasn't good enough for Davek. Moyes, the miserable old so-and-so, got that rusty bath tub BK was passing off as a cruise-ship to the rubes to harbour every year somehow ... and often ahead of boats that cost actual money. He's practically Jesus Christ.

But Davek said NO! ... not good enough. And now you are all having your revenge by hiring Moyes 2.0 and saying 7th is undeniable progress.

Thing was there used to be more than just Davek. I'd say it was fairly evenly split for most of Moyes tenure ... although more had started to turn nearing the end of a decade (which is natural ... see: Wenger).

Why you can win the Prem and then finish bottom half (they've finished bottom half as much as we've finished 7th mate before your forum fingers get crazy) ... but isn't winning the Prem progress? How could they regress?

11th or 7th is largely the same result with an owner like Moshiri.

BK had no money ... steady eddie managers who grind out 7th placed average finishes is a "Rhianna nude in your hot-tub" level result for an owner like Bill Kenwright. We lived off the Prem money -- having a risk-taking "shoot for the moon" ... but maybe you finish bottom half instead type of manager made no sense for BK.

We were all so happy when Moshiri showed up we forgot he finished 11th two years in a row.

We used to say if BK finished bottom half two years in a row after building a squad with top six contending payroll and fees he wouldn't have enough money to run the club anymore and would sell the club to someone bad. Haha. Wrong! I mean sure Moshiri showed up coincidentally and bought the club and its a great deal and everything is going to be great forever ... but if that didn't happen BK would been fine and it isn't at all a coincidence he finally sold the club. He's very good at business and knows all the terms.

There is no such thing as this steady progress all of you claimed to like and you bloody know that!

Arsenal are in their second decade of "steadily progressing" I believe.

If we're about to try to pay 50m quid for someone many of us wanted to buy for 13m a few summers back we aren't that club.

I didn't like Moyes in the sense of producing fist pumping joy in my soul ... he was the best option for our situation at the time.

He fit.

The things Koeman says don't fit what Moshiri promises we will be and the things you all say don't fit who we say we are.

NSNO.

BK should have fired Martinez. He wasn't the right manager for an owner like BK.

Moshiri fired the kind of manager Moshiri needs and hired the kind of manager BK needed.

It doesn't matter if Martinez wasn't the right manager ... then fire Martinez and hire a manager "like" Martinez. The point is having the right fit for the right time.

Instead he hired the kind of manager BK needed ... not that BK as owner could have afforded or attracted Koeman at this precise moment in history but certainly if he'd hired him instead of Martinez that would have been appropriate for all involved.

I'm not here to say "you should hate Koeman" ... I just find it weird how everyone is just all-in on Moshiri and Koeman as if there are no red flags. It's bizarre and it's starting to seem like you've all just abandoned reason to troll Davek.

It's genuinely reminiscent to the Trump movement to me -- a bunch of red flags and yet a majority of people seem convinced for some reason.

I know "it's early" ... some would say when you allow Martinez to pay what Martinez paid for players you are adopting a specific strategy that takes time and three years in and 5/11/11 would be "early" to fire someone too ... but then there is that concept of PROGRESS ... if only it were 11/11/5 that would be SO different right? Progress. All prior years influence the following years. We're smart! Still ... not as if us not understanding basic concepts on the internet does any real harm right?

MAKE EVERTON GREAT AGAIN!

This is a cycle.

You are stuck in a loop.

 

[Woolly Blue]

wolo??

You called ?

 

[Khalekan]

Yes of course! The slow steady progress we are all familiar with seeing in the Premier League. We all remember the process Chelsea and Man City went through where one year it was top ten, then 8th, then 7th, then 5th, then 4th ... then a little snake (or "chute" ffs) down to 6th but then boom it's 3rd then 2nd and then finally you win the Prem after years of mostly steady progress.

There is no such thing as this steady progress all of you claimed to like and you bloody know that!

Arsenal are in their second decade of "steadily progressing" I believe.

If we're about to try to pay 50m quid for someone many of us wanted to buy for 13m a few summers back we aren't that club.

I didn't like Moyes in the sense of producing fist pumping joy in my soul ... he was the best option for our situation at the time.

He fit.

The things Koeman says don't fit what Moshiri promises we will be and the things you all say don't fit who we say we are.

NSNO.

BK should have fired Martinez. He wasn't the right manager for an owner like BK.

Moshiri fired the kind of manager Moshiri needs and hired the kind of manager BK needed.

It doesn't matter if Martinez wasn't the right manager ... then fire Martinez and hire a manager "like" Martinez. The point is having the right fit for the right time.

Instead he hired the kind of manager BK needed ... not that BK as owner could have afforded or attracted Koeman at this precise moment in history but certainly if he'd hired him instead of Martinez that would have been appropriate for all involved.

I'm not here to say "you should hate Koeman" ... I just find it weird how everyone is just all-in on Moshiri and Koeman as if there are no red flags. It's bizarre and it's starting to seem like you've all just abandoned reason to troll Davek.

It's genuinely reminiscent to the Trump movement to me -- a bunch of red flags and yet a majority of people seem convinced for some reason.

I know "it's early" ... some would say when you allow Martinez to pay what Martinez paid for players you are adopting a specific strategy that takes time and three years in and 5/11/11 would be "early" to fire someone too ... but then there is that concept of PROGRESS ... if only it were 11/11/5 that would be SO different right? Progress. All prior years influence the following years. We're smart! Still ... not as if us not understanding basic concepts on the internet does any real harm right?

MAKE EVERTON GREAT AGAIN!

This is a cycle.

You are stuck in a loop.

YeeHaw.......you tell 'em, fella


And that bit I highlighted?

File under last week's buzz phrase round these parts......"transitional season".

Manchester United are into their fourth "transitional season" since Ferguson retired

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

YeeHaw.......you tell 'em, fella


And that bit I highlighted?

File under last week's buzz phrase round these parts......"transitional season".

Manchester United are into their fourth "transitional season" since Ferguson retired

That has something to do with the fact that they keep sacking managers! They'll always be in the transitional season zone until they let a manager create his long-term vision.

 

[Blue Cheese]

That has something to do with the fact that they keep sacking managers! They'll always be in the transitional season zone until they let a manager create his long-term vision.

Arsene Wenger says Hi x

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Arsene Wenger says Hi x

Oh ye they're in an awful position aren't they! Top four every season and regularly competing for trophies. Most people would be happy enough with that but Arsenal fans are some of the most self-entitled crying arseholes in football. Arsenal can get rid of Wenger at their own peril. They need him a hell of a lot more then he needs them.

 

[Blue Cheese]

Oh ye they're in an awful position aren't they! Top four every season and regularly competing for trophies. Most people would be happy enough with that but Arsenal fans are some of the most self-entitled crying arseholes in football. Arsenal can get rid of Wenger at their own peril. They need him ahell of a lot more then he needs them.

Arsenal are underachieving ask their fans, and after all that stability, new ground move etc. For a club their size with their resources, not winning the League for over a decade is not good enough, whilst little City and Chelsea both have.

You think Gunners fans are happy at seeing Chelsea win the League and now Spurs challenging, of course they're upset, wouldn't you be. Maybe that's what you want, safety first and a good clap at the big screen.

Point is you're stability nonsense doesn't stack up in the real world and those times have gone. Managers don't stick around very long anymore I suggest you get used to it.

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

Arsenal are underachieving ask their fans, and after all that stability, new ground move etc. For a club their size with their resources, not winning the League for over a decade is not good enough, whilst little City and Chelsea both have.

You think Gunners fans are happy at seeing Chelsea win the League and now Spurs challenging, of course they're upset, wouldn't you be. Maybe that's what you want, safety first and a good clap at the big screen.

Point is you're stability nonsense doesn't stack up in the real world and those times have gone. Managers don't stick around very long anymore I suggest you get used to it.

I know Arsenal fans aren't happy. They never are. Apart from the red lot over in Castle Grayskull they're the most self-entitled crying tarts in the game. If they want to blame someone for that fact that they aren't winning enough titles then they need to look at their owners rather then Wenger.

Oh I'm getting used to manager's getting sacked and replaced season after season. The managerial merry-go-round is now very much part of the game. It's partly why the league is so dog standard these days.

I want my side to compete the same as everyone else but I live in the real world and know that you won't beat Man City and Chelsea to the title by sacking managers every season and just randomly throwing money at things hoping it will fix everything.

 

[BlueToff]

Yes of course! The slow steady progress we are all familiar with seeing in the Premier League. We all remember the process Chelsea and Man City went through where one year it was top ten, then 8th, then 7th, then 5th, then 4th ... then a little snake (or "chute" ffs) down to 6th but then boom it's 3rd then 2nd and then finally you win the Prem after years of mostly steady progress.

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT ONE YEAR REPRESENTS IRREVERSIBLE PROGRESS.

We have zero recent examples of any setbacks after progress to 7th or higher.

IT'S UNDENIABLE that to finish 7th is progress for Everton football club.

Of course it's January so maybe we shouldn't count our chickens before the eggs have even been laid let alone hatched ... but hey I don't have to surrender reality at the door when visiting the internet.

This argument is devoid of even an ounce of logic and ten+ people liked it and almost nobody likes Davek's comments which initiated this comment. I used to think Davek was trolling this site but now I think this entire site is trolling Davek.

Years ago Davek complained about Moyes being the captain of Bill Kenwright's hole filled boat ... Bill Kenwright's Everton was more hole than boat! ... and yet 7th or so every year wasn't good enough for Davek. Moyes, the miserable old so-and-so, got that rusty bath tub BK was passing off as a cruise-ship to the rubes to harbour every year somehow ... and often ahead of boats that cost actual money. He's practically Jesus Christ.

But Davek said NO! ... not good enough. And now you are all having your revenge by hiring Moyes 2.0 and saying 7th is undeniable progress.

Thing was there used to be more than just Davek. I'd say it was fairly evenly split for most of Moyes tenure ... although more had started to turn nearing the end of a decade (which is natural ... see: Wenger).

Why you can win the Prem and then finish bottom half (they've finished bottom half as much as we've finished 7th mate before your forum fingers get crazy) ... but isn't winning the Prem progress? How could they regress?

11th or 7th is largely the same result with an owner like Moshiri.

BK had no money ... steady eddie managers who grind out 7th placed average finishes is a "Rhianna nude in your hot-tub" level result for an owner like Bill Kenwright. We lived off the Prem money -- having a risk-taking "shoot for the moon" ... but maybe you finish bottom half instead type of manager made no sense for BK.

We were all so happy when Moshiri showed up we forgot he finished 11th two years in a row.

We used to say if BK finished bottom half two years in a row after building a squad with top six contending payroll and fees he wouldn't have enough money to run the club anymore and would sell the club to someone bad. Haha. Wrong! I mean sure Moshiri showed up coincidentally and bought the club and its a great deal and everything is going to be great forever ... but if that didn't happen BK would been fine and it isn't at all a coincidence he finally sold the club. He's very good at business and knows all the terms.

There is no such thing as this steady progress all of you claimed to like and you bloody know that!

Arsenal are in their second decade of "steadily progressing" I believe.

If we're about to try to pay 50m quid for someone many of us wanted to buy for 13m a few summers back we aren't that club.

I didn't like Moyes in the sense of producing fist pumping joy in my soul ... he was the best option for our situation at the time.

He fit.

The things Koeman says don't fit what Moshiri promises we will be and the things you all say don't fit who we say we are.

NSNO.

BK should have fired Martinez. He wasn't the right manager for an owner like BK.

Moshiri fired the kind of manager Moshiri needs and hired the kind of manager BK needed.

It doesn't matter if Martinez wasn't the right manager ... then fire Martinez and hire a manager "like" Martinez. The point is having the right fit for the right time.

Instead he hired the kind of manager BK needed ... not that BK as owner could have afforded or attracted Koeman at this precise moment in history but certainly if he'd hired him instead of Martinez that would have been appropriate for all involved.

I'm not here to say "you should hate Koeman" ... I just find it weird how everyone is just all-in on Moshiri and Koeman as if there are no red flags. It's bizarre and it's starting to seem like you've all just abandoned reason to troll Davek.

It's genuinely reminiscent to the Trump movement to me -- a bunch of red flags and yet a majority of people seem convinced for some reason.

I know "it's early" ... some would say when you allow Martinez to pay what Martinez paid for players you are adopting a specific strategy that takes time and three years in and 5/11/11 would be "early" to fire someone too ... but then there is that concept of PROGRESS ... if only it were 11/11/5 that would be SO different right? Progress. All prior years influence the following years. We're smart! Still ... not as if us not understanding basic concepts on the internet does any real harm right?

MAKE EVERTON GREAT AGAIN!

This is a cycle.

You are stuck in a loop.

7th is better than 11th

 

[nsno-chris]

Yes of course! The slow steady progress we are all familiar with seeing in the Premier League. We all remember the process Chelsea and Man City went through where one year it was top ten, then 8th, then 7th, then 5th, then 4th ... then a little snake (or "chute" ffs) down to 6th but then boom it's 3rd then 2nd and then finally you win the Prem after years of mostly steady progress.

AND WE ALL KNOW THAT ONE YEAR REPRESENTS IRREVERSIBLE PROGRESS.

We have zero recent examples of any setbacks after progress to 7th or higher.

IT'S UNDENIABLE that to finish 7th is progress for Everton football club.

Of course it's January so maybe we shouldn't count our chickens before the eggs have even been laid let alone hatched ... but hey I don't have to surrender reality at the door when visiting the internet.

This argument is devoid of even an ounce of logic and ten+ people liked it and almost nobody likes Davek's comments which initiated this comment. I used to think Davek was trolling this site but now I think this entire site is trolling Davek.

Years ago Davek complained about Moyes being the captain of Bill Kenwright's hole filled boat ... Bill Kenwright's Everton was more hole than boat! ... and yet 7th or so every year wasn't good enough for Davek. Moyes, the miserable old so-and-so, got that rusty bath tub BK was passing off as a cruise-ship to the rubes to harbour every year somehow ... and often ahead of boats that cost actual money. He's practically Jesus Christ.

But Davek said NO! ... not good enough. And now you are all having your revenge by hiring Moyes 2.0 and saying 7th is undeniable progress.

Thing was there used to be more than just Davek. I'd say it was fairly evenly split for most of Moyes tenure ... although more had started to turn nearing the end of a decade (which is natural ... see: Wenger).

Why you can win the Prem and then finish bottom half (they've finished bottom half as much as we've finished 7th mate before your forum fingers get crazy) ... but isn't winning the Prem progress? How could they regress?

11th or 7th is largely the same result with an owner like Moshiri.

BK had no money ... steady eddie managers who grind out 7th placed average finishes is a "Rhianna nude in your hot-tub" level result for an owner like Bill Kenwright. We lived off the Prem money -- having a risk-taking "shoot for the moon" ... but maybe you finish bottom half instead type of manager made no sense for BK.

We were all so happy when Moshiri showed up we forgot he finished 11th two years in a row.

We used to say if BK finished bottom half two years in a row after building a squad with top six contending payroll and fees he wouldn't have enough money to run the club anymore and would sell the club to someone bad. Haha. Wrong! I mean sure Moshiri showed up coincidentally and bought the club and its a great deal and everything is going to be great forever ... but if that didn't happen BK would been fine and it isn't at all a coincidence he finally sold the club. He's very good at business and knows all the terms.

There is no such thing as this steady progress all of you claimed to like and you bloody know that!

Arsenal are in their second decade of "steadily progressing" I believe.

If we're about to try to pay 50m quid for someone many of us wanted to buy for 13m a few summers back we aren't that club.

I didn't like Moyes in the sense of producing fist pumping joy in my soul ... he was the best option for our situation at the time.

He fit.

The things Koeman says don't fit what Moshiri promises we will be and the things you all say don't fit who we say we are.

NSNO.

BK should have fired Martinez. He wasn't the right manager for an owner like BK.

Moshiri fired the kind of manager Moshiri needs and hired the kind of manager BK needed.

It doesn't matter if Martinez wasn't the right manager ... then fire Martinez and hire a manager "like" Martinez. The point is having the right fit for the right time.

Instead he hired the kind of manager BK needed ... not that BK as owner could have afforded or attracted Koeman at this precise moment in history but certainly if he'd hired him instead of Martinez that would have been appropriate for all involved.

I'm not here to say "you should hate Koeman" ... I just find it weird how everyone is just all-in on Moshiri and Koeman as if there are no red flags. It's bizarre and it's starting to seem like you've all just abandoned reason to troll Davek.

It's genuinely reminiscent to the Trump movement to me -- a bunch of red flags and yet a majority of people seem convinced for some reason.

I know "it's early" ... some would say when you allow Martinez to pay what Martinez paid for players you are adopting a specific strategy that takes time and three years in and 5/11/11 would be "early" to fire someone too ... but then there is that concept of PROGRESS ... if only it were 11/11/5 that would be SO different right? Progress. All prior years influence the following years. We're smart! Still ... not as if us not understanding basic concepts on the internet does any real harm right?

MAKE EVERTON GREAT AGAIN!

This is a cycle.

You are stuck in a loop.

Be arsed reading that. Can you summarise with a gif or a drawing

 

[Blue Cheese]

I know Arsenal fans aren't happy. They never are. Apart from the red lot over in Castle Grayskull they're the most self-entitled crying tarts in the game. If they want to blame someone for that fact that they aren't winning enough titles then they need to look at their owners rather then Wenger.

Oh I'm getting used to manager's getting sacked and replaced season after season. The managerial merry-go-round is now very much part of the game. It's partly why the league is so dog standard these days.

I want my side to compete the same as everyone else but I live in the real world and know that you won't beat Man City and Chelsea to the title by sacking managers every season and just randomly throwing money at things hoping it will fix everything.

In an ideal world, managers should be given time, money these days though dictates otherwise. I agree with a lot of your points, unfortunately times have changed, probably not for the better like you say.

 

[Khalekan]

7th is better than 11th

A simple truth.

 

[Moomin]

Be arsed reading that. Can you summarise with a gif or a drawing