Ronald Koeman discussion

[bluewally]

Oh no he's not martinez

 

[davek]

We're not far apart.

1 and 2 are what I'd call competitive. There's no reason a club of our size should be struggling to compete at that level.

3 is tougher, and depends on a bit of luck as well as good coaching and sound business decisions being made.

1&2 were also the realistic aims for Martinez btw, but lets not rake that crap up again !

I think the schedule depends on the owners, tbh. I have confidence in Koeman if he's backed.

Maybe we should flip this and say that if, after three seasons, the owner hasn't weighed in with his promissory note to 'give you all I have' he should be the one getting chased out?

 

[meatyard]

Ronny's "but ok" is Roberto's "phenomenal".



And yes I called him Ronny

 

[Goat]

I have a very open mind on Koeman. I like him as a manager and he seems a good sort. But his record is patchy. Out of the managers realisticlly linked with us he was the one I'd have gone for due to PL experience.

I'll look on with interest to see how he reacts to being here at Everton. He's not a long ball merchant by trade, he likes to build from deep and go long when no options are available and/or to mix it up. However, he inherits a club that Martinez never fully dragged out of the instinct to go direct immediately the going got tough. There are players there now who's first instinct is to hoof and there's a fair few fans weaned on Moyes' teat who believe shuffling the ball to the halfway line and punting vaguely to a target man outside or just inside the 18 yard box to look for the second ball is a great way to play football.

Koeman needs to fully gain control over players and those supporters who wish to roll the years back to the dark days of punting football.

LOL

Koeman loves a punt, cant wait till we sign some beanpole and hit it long.

 

[Woolly Blue]

I think the schedule depends on the owners, tbh. I have confidence in Koeman if he's backed.

Maybe we should flip this and say that if, after three seasons, the owner hasn't weighed in with his promissory note to 'give you all I have' he should be the one getting chased out?

Short term, by which I mean two or three years, we need to be financially competitive with the clubs with 5th to 8th "ambitions" to give Koeman a decent crack at it.

Longer term, lets let him deliver a stadium before getting the pitchforks out ! The short term stuff would be ace, but putting the infrastructure in place for the long term is probably more important.

If we aren't a fair way down the new stadium route in a few years time ( I'm ignoring Joe's timetable and wouldn't really expect to be playing in a stadium by then, but would expect all the ducks to be in a row and measurable progress made) then questions certainly need to be asked.

 

[davek]

LOL

Koeman loves a punt, cant wait till we sign some beanpole and hit it long.

“The most easy way to attack is a long ball, like we do sometimes, we play a long ball to [Graziano] Pelle. That means in one pass you are close to the box of the opponent. I prefer always to play football but sometimes it’s a good option if you have a player like Carroll or like Man United has with [Marouane] Fellaini. To do something different to try a different way to score goals." - Ronald Koeman

You're welcome.

 

[Goat]

You're welcome.

Huh?

This your problem David, the punt up to the big man IS football, its the lifeblood of football, this is why you loved winning da passing and going nowhere under Martinez, you dont understand football.

 

[davek]

Short term, by which I mean two or three years, we need to be financially competitive with the clubs with 5th to 8th "ambitions" to give Koeman a decent crack at it.

Longer term, lets let him deliver a stadium before getting the pitchforks out ! The short term stuff would be ace, but putting the infrastructure in place for the long term is probably more important.

If we aren't a fair way down the new stadium route in a few years time ( I'm ignoring Joe's timetable and wouldn't really expect to be playing in a stadium by then, but would expect all the ducks to be in a row and measurable progress made) then questions certainly need to be asked.

All a long long way from the feelgood statements bandied about not so long ago concerning moving up a level with Moshiri's cash.

I'd venture to say that the fever has broken and we all know what the real script is now (playing well on the pitch after the arduous task of recruiting quality players within our budget range on wages and fees and putting together an attractive team/'brand' that can increase commercial performance).

Moshiri's input to us over and above what we've had latterly under Kenwright will be to stand behind a stadium scheme and give encouragement to potential partners that we're not the flaky, unreliable basket case organisation that they've previously struggled to do business with.

 

[davek]

Huh?

This your problem David, the punt up to the big man IS football, its the lifeblood of football, this is why you loved winning da passing and going nowhere under Martinez, you dont understand football.

Not on my watch. It's schilky fussballen or nothing for me.

 

[Dario Terracotta]

Stekelenberg,Gueye and Williams,three very astute purchases it looks like to me,yeah we need more,but Rome wasn't built in a day,slowly,slowly catch the monkey!

 

[Woolly Blue]

All a long long way from the feelgood statements bandied about not so long ago concerning moving up a level with Moshiri's cash.

I'm not arsed what other people have said or thought mate ! I've been pretty consistent over the last six months in saying that things won't happen overnight and we're looking at a three to five year plan to see any major change.

Doubtless I can be vaulted being a bit more gungho than that, but that's pretty much been my message.

That doesn't stop it being exciting and it doesn't alter the fact that I believe we're ditching a set of unambitious owners for one who actually has a vision and a plan, but it will take time.

The Martinez "experiment" was a risky one and relied on trying to use a type of football to break the glass ceiling, and it failed. That's not all Martinez's fault, but he carries a fair bit of the blame.

The Moshiri experiment is, in business terms, more of a traditional plan. We can, and should judge both Koeman and Moshiri on what they deliver, but it'll take a while to be able to judge either of them, and it's likely to to take longer to judge Moshiri than it will to judge Koeman.

Short term, we'll judge them both by how we finish this season.

Medium term Moshiri has to strengthen us financially, either directly by raising investment or indirectly via improved commercial deals, preferably both, and that will include the next shirt deal

Longer term he'll be judged on the stadium and, among other commercial deals, what happens post Kitbag.

 

[Donald Twain]

Stekelenberg,Gueye and Williams,three very astute purchases it looks like to me,yeah we need more,but Rome wasn't built in a day,slowly,slowly catch the monkey!

Wow!

 

[davek]

I'm not arsed what other people have said or thought mate ! I've been pretty consistent over the last six months in saying that things won't happen overnight and we're looking at a three to five year plan to see any major change.

Doubtless I can be vaulted being a bit more gungho than that, but that's pretty much been my message.

That doesn't stop it being exciting and it doesn't alter the fact that I believe we're ditching a set of unambitious owners for one who actually has a vision and a plan, but it will take time.

The Martinez "experiment" was a risky one and relied on trying to use a type of football to break the glass ceiling, and it failed. That's not all Martinez's fault, but he carries a fair bit of the blame.

The Moshiri experiment is, in business terms, more of a traditional plan. We can, and should judge both Koeman and Moshiri on what they deliver, but it'll take a while to be able to judge either of them, and it's likely to to take longer to judge Moshiri than it will to judge Koeman.

Short term, we'll judge them both by how we finish this season.

Medium term Moshiri has to strengthen us financially, either directly by raising investment or indirectly via improved commercial deals, preferably both, and that will include the next shirt deal

Longer term he'll be judged on the stadium and, among other commercial deals, what happens post Kitbag.

The thing that troubles me about this new owner is how he makes a big statement about giving all he has when there's no prospect of him doing that in the near future. Big players come not only with big fees - which he's apparently willing to cover - but big wages, and that sort of short circuits that one. Commercial activity: Everton's commercial performance cant be improved greatly without a stadium, which is miles off. So I'm struggling to understand what he meant about giving us all he has.

We've basically got a fairy godmother who cant use their magic wand.

 

[Woolly Blue]

The thing that troubles me about this new owner is how he makes a big statement about giving all he has when there's no prospect of him doing that in the near future. Big players come not only with big fees - which he's apparently willing to cover - but big wages, and that sort of short circuits that one. Commercial activity: Everton's commercial performance cant be improved greatly without a stadium, which is miles off. So I'm struggling to understand what he meant about giving us all he has.

We've basically got a fairy godmother who cant use their magic wand.

It was, without doubt, a bit of a daft thing to say, because people will interpret it as meaning "all my money is yours". In reality, if I went into a business partnership with you and told you "I'll give this whatever I have", you wouldn't expect me to plow all my cash in, sell all my properties and see if I could get five camels for the missus, what you'd expect was me to work damned hard, day and night at making the business a success.

His full quote, by the way was

What am I to say? I bought into a great club, I felt it today. It is a great club. I think we just enjoy the day and let’s hope we can energise the club. You can never take over a club. You can be part of a club and I think that is what I am hoping, to become part of a club. I think for me I have bought into a family, a new family. That is what’s special for me and I’ll give them whatever I have.

He might have been thinking about what he might say, but I don't think it was scripted, and, if memory serves me right, both Bill and himself were half cut when he was interviewed.

 

[davek]

It was, without doubt, a bit of a daft thing to say, because people will interpret it as meaning "all my money is yours". In reality, if I went into a business partnership with you and told you "I'll give this whatever I have", you wouldn't expect me to plow all my cash in, sell all my properties and see if I could get five camels for the missus, what you'd expect was me to work damned hard, day and night at making the business a success.

His full quote, by the way was



He might have been thinking about what he might say, but I don't think it was scripted, and, if memory serves me right, both Bill and himself were half cut when he was interviewed.

Yes, that's a reasonable enough interpretation of a post match interview after an emotional win. But he'd earlier released a statement that week where he committed to providing cash for players and retaining existing players. That's already compromised and may well be breached even further by the end of the window. We certainly weren't seeing any incoming until a big money sale was made.

He will be useful, I'm sure of that. But I think this window will burst a bit of a bubble that's been allowed to build up around him and that could be a problem.