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Ronald Koeman discussion

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davek said:
This ^^^^ is what I'd cauction against: the declaration that everything is sorted out and on track and that Koemans style is on show and succeeding. It's not safe to assume those things.

Everything isn't sorted out. That defence still has the ability to Keystone Cops up a game...as it almost did last Saturday.

Koemans game is nowhere near on display here at Everton. It's presently an almalgation of what went before and what will come to be. Save your conclusions on "how Ronny likes to play" until next season, because this season tells you nothing in that respect.
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But ok, when we ship out that utter donkey Mori and replace him with an actual CB things will improve on that front.

Cant wait to see your face when we smash Arsenal 4-0 on the final day and finish 3rd.
 
davek said:
How on earth can Everton have had two errors that lead to goals? Lol. These stats people must have a very strange system. Any idea what the criteria is, because it sounds like the only criteria are own goals and suicidal back passes.

Call me old fashioned but balls played into the box and not defended are errors. Or maybe not these days and goals conceded that way are shrugged off as an act of God? I bet there isn't many managers who see it that way.
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I don't disagree with this point, but likely a matter of simply doubling each of the numbers, so I would suspect the trend would stand. We were not fantastic at defending corners last year by any means.

While I thought the stats on Goals Leading to Errors was the clearest example of how we have changed this year, the team play stats also tell a story, which I see as follows:

Between 06/07 and the end of his tenure Moyes slowly changed tactics from a long ball, hit and run type manager to a more balanced style of play (IMO the squad improved over this period as well, so he had a bit more to work with). Note how passing accuracy improved dramatically over this time. Crossing accuracy was also quite impressive later in his tenure.

Martinez was obviously big on short passes and controlled possession and perhaps passing accuracy best illustrates this (low to mid-80%'s are where the top teams are).

The stats to me show Koeman as a bit of a mix between the two. Number of passes and accuracy have dropped by are still higher than Moyes and the as good as the best Moyes years respectively. Crosses pro-rate to 780, so more Martinez like. Looking at Southampton under Koeman, passing accuracy was 80% and 78% and crosses where closer to 950 per year, so the drop here I put more into a lingering Martinez effect (much as 13/14 had a really nice mix of Moyes and MArtinez).

Personally I think Koemans's more adaptable that either Moyes (defensive by nature) or Martinez (attack at all costs). In essence I view Koeman as nice mix between the two. The biggest take away for me from his press conference today was when he was asked about the selection headaches in midfield and he in return spoke of having a nice mix of styles that he can employ based on the opponent. I think he will use this nicely, playing Davies when we need a bit of flair/creativity and McCarthy more when we need guile and the door shutting.

2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 2012/13 2013/14 2014/15 2015/16 2016/17
Passes per Match 323 326 395 390 378 396 417 482 495 472 441
Pass Accuracy 65% 69% 75% 76% 76% 77% 79% 84% 82% 81% 78%
Crosses 867 877 1,022 1,022 1,019 877 989 848 690 782 497
Cross Accuracy 22% 23% 24% 23% 26% 24% 27% 22% 19% 21% 21%
 
PickeringBlue said:
I don't disagree with this point, but likely a matter of simply doubling each of the numbers, so I would suspect the trend would stand. We were not fantastic at defending corners last year by any means.

While I thought the stats on Goals Leading to Errors was the clearest example of how we have changed this year, the team play stats also tell a story, which I see as follows:

Between 06/07 and the end of his tenure Moyes slowly changed tactics from a long ball, hit and run type manager to a more balanced style of play (IMO the squad improved over this period as well, so he had a bit more to work with). Note how passing accuracy improved dramatically over this time. Crossing accuracy was also quite impressive later in his tenure.

Martinez was obviously big on short passes and controlled possession and perhaps passing accuracy best illustrates this (low to mid-80%'s are where the top teams are).

The stats to me show Koeman as a bit of a mix between the two. Number of passes and accuracy have dropped by are still higher than Moyes and the as good as the best Moyes years respectively. Crosses pro-rate to 780, so more Martinez like. Looking at Southampton under Koeman, passing accuracy was 80% and 78% and crosses where closer to 950 per year, so the drop here I put more into a lingering Martinez effect (much as 13/14 had a really nice mix of Moyes and MArtinez).

Personally I think Koemans's more adaptable that either Moyes (defensive by nature) or Martinez (attack at all costs). In essence I view Koeman as nice mix between the two. The biggest take away for me from his press conference today was when he was asked about the selection headaches in midfield and he in return spoke of having a nice mix of styles that he can employ based on the opponent. I think he will use this nicely, playing Davies when we need a bit of flair/creativity and McCarthy more when we need guile and the door shutting.

2006/07 2007/08 2008/09 2009/10 2010/11 2011/12 2012/13 2013/14 2014/15 2015/16 2016/17
Passes per Match 323 326 395 390 378 396 417 482 495 472 441
Pass Accuracy 65% 69% 75% 76% 76% 77% 79% 84% 82% 81% 78%
Crosses 867 877 1,022 1,022 1,019 877 989 848 690 782 497
Cross Accuracy 22% 23% 24% 23% 26% 24% 27% 22% 19% 21% 21%
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Not sure where you got he figures but yeah, I suppose that does show to a certain extent a merger of Moyes/Martinez strengths. However, the devil, as always, is in the detail. It'd be interesting to see what those figures of Koemans were before and after, say, the United game. I think after Bolasie gets injured the game plan changes fundamentally and the stats would reflect that.

What that tells us for the future is unclear. With Bolasie back again and Koeman adding more players in the summer, is there a reversion to the more direct game we witnessed prior to Bolasie's injury? I'd imagine someone like Schneiderlin was brought in because he can turn defence into attack very quickly with a lot of longer passes out wide and upfront. Or does Koeman adapt more to the culture at the club he inherited (and is now being brought back in again by playing more through the midfield and constructing moves at pace) something he realises is the game to go with?
 
davek said:
That's largely tactics mate, not the method adopted. Yes we are pressing much better than last season but it's what we do with the ball that's reverted to the way we played before Koeman. When we get it we make use of it by building moves, we don't just pump it forward as was the case under this feller until very recently. That's where the change has taken place. He's given these players their head and stopped stifling that. As said, Bolaises injury was crucial in that respect. But know this: next season that will change. Bolasie, his game and players like him are the future of this club and the style of play will reflect that. We have yet to see Koemans Everton. Anyone thinking this is it are not paying attention.
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YOUR SO FULL OF SH.T , YOUR AVATAR ORANGE SHOULD BE BROWN
 


davek said:
We know how quickly things change. I'll stick with my point earlier today that no one here knows what a Koeman team looks like at Everton yet.
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Agree on this, we don't fully know just how good we are going to be, we're looking great now but this is only the start of things, once it's fully his team if we continue the progress we have made we are going to be seriously good.
His first two windows have been to try and fix some of the mess Martinez left, the next one will be the start of him putting a few cherries on top.
 

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