Ronald Koeman discussion

[hktoffee]

'Built from the platform of a 6th place..." He demolished that platform and started again playing a different brand of football. That Moyes 'platform' was nothing of the sort.

And by the way, why you and others like to denigrate this club getting it;s best league points total since the 80s is beyond me. Doid you hate getting it at the time? Did you laugh and think 'what a load of inconsequential tosh that season's been"?

No, you didnt.,

Sorry 4th under Moyes was better than your 72 points trophy, it's still 5th.

This is nonsense. The defence drill was still there in his first season. He got a core which finished 6th place in the previous season, improved it by 1 place (yea 5th still) and 9 points and you are making RM like a godness figure. Since your miracle season, he showed what he is made of by putting his ideas into the team and the freefall began.

Martinez is a fluke why don't just accept it? 21 wins in 75 matches. Non-defendable. Please stop giving an answer which is not relating to the orginial question.

And the reason why I made these replies is because of your daily praising of a fraud and degrading our current manager in Koeman, stripping off every credit he is due. You are making me dislike RM even more actually Dave.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

An extract here from Greg O'Keefes's analysis in the Liverpool Echo.

The matchday programme declared a Retro theme at Goodison, and fittingly nostalgia was in the air.

David Moyes chatted to Bill Kenwright during the pre-game warm-up, as Phil Jagielka and Joleon Lescott became reacquainted nearby.

Darron Gibson and Bryan Oviedo received a warm round of applause when their names were read out. Elsewhere, injured duo Jack Rodwell and Victor Anichebe were watching from home. So far, so 2007.

But the manner in which Ronald Koeman's side ground out a functional yet crucial win over opponents calibrated to thwart and frustrate was more about the future.

You don't have to delve deep into the history books to find an era when the Blues would have failed to win this game. Roberto Martinez's side routinely made a meal out of fixtures like this.

But the growing ability to see such games out with three points could well herald brighter times ahead.

 

[Howards tipple]

MOTD earlier saying we are a dynamic team. Maybe that's a way of putting it, but there are times when that energy expenditure becomes frenetic and wasteful. It was enough to get on top of good teams like City who are easily ruffled out of their cultured stride, but against a team like Chelsea who can match energy and keep it disciplined rather than frenetic we took a bad defeat.

Spurs IMO are in that mould. They will not be shaken by a huge surge of energy coming at them and they have a lot of quality to punish sloppy play. That game next week will need to see a different approach by Koeman to get anything at WHL. If we play the way we played today we'll get our arses handed to his.

Broad statement which basically says if we don't get 3 points RK isn't good enough.

That's going to be a hard game, any one picking up points at WHL will have played out of their skin. RK should be judged over a season, preferably next, where its his squad and progress made can be truly judged.

 

[rochdaleblue]

Broad statement which basically says if we don't get 3 points RK isn't good enough.

That's going to be a hard game, any one picking up points at WHL will have played out of their skin. RK should be judged over a season, preferably next, where its his squad and progress made can be truly judged.

Fully agree, Chelsea and City got beat there. We'd be in good company if we don't win there. Saying that next week, is a good barometer of our progress. Win there and the top 6 is on.

 

[jinkyali]

Where did I state that?

Thanks in advance.

He's scored one quarter of all our PL goals in the last 4 seasons. We are being carried by him. No one comes close.

Why do you continue to do this to yourself?

 

[Cork Evertonian]

Another extract here from Phil Kirkbrides match report in the Liverpool Echo.

And given that this Sunderland side, fighting relegation, managed to score twice at Goodison last season but managed just one shot on target this time, says a lot for the changes Koeman has overseen.

Yes, Everton scored six that day but what would we rather have?

The roller coaster, white-knuckle stuff that became the hallmark of the last manager, as thrilling as it was when it came off?

Or this, the near certainty of a win, the solidity, dominance and assuredness that a Koeman team, more often than not, will serve up?

It won't always be a thrill-a-minute but there's a greater chance it'll be more successful.

 

[davek]

Fair enough. Either way we will know where we are at this point in time within the next month. I still think koeman needs time and patience, Ill admit i lost it with him when he had us playing hoofball for four weeks but credit to him for changing the system and the players. We are definitely moving forward and you're right in saying we've achieved nothing but there are signs of progress and the most important bit for me is he's getting more out of the players and players like Barkley look like they are actually progressing. Big tests are coming before the end of the season but so far so good imo.

I actually think he was massively helped by Bolasie's injury. It forced him to stop what he was doing (going back to front early and often) and had him using the skill sets of the players in front of him and already here. That has made us much less one dimensional and he should really have done that from the off: been pragmatic and make himself adapt to the material at the club rather than the other way around, which was what he was doing: trying to turn us into a S'ton MkII with flying wingers and big bustling forwards getting on the end of long passes and crosses in from wide and deep. HE has moved towards the squad's strengths - that's what's happened.

My fear is that once he has Bolasie back and gets a different type of striker in (regardless of whether Lukaku stays or goes, btw) then we'll see him revert back to his preferred way of operating. I saw his Feyenoord side often enough to know that what he did at S'ton and there is how he rolls. This at the moment is a bit of a departure for him at Everton. We play through midfield a lot more than those two teams of his at those clubs ever did.

 

[davek]

Broad statement which basically says if we don't get 3 points RK isn't good enough.

That's going to be a hard game, any one picking up points at WHL will have played out of their skin. RK should be judged over a season, preferably next, where its his squad and progress made can be truly judged.

It's not a broad statement. It's an evaluation of how we play right now and how it shapes up against top teams who can also match our effort. They'll always win that duel because they have energy and good players all over the park and that's why they are going to the CL next season.

Take it for what it is.

 

[davek]

Why do you continue to do this to yourself?

No mate. You (again) failed to read the actual posts being made. I asked you where I'd stated that no other team is reliant on one striker than Everton?

The 'no one comes close' stuff is in relation to OUR team: no one in our team comes close to being as important for us in terms of scoring - ie, we dont have a number of 7/8/9 goal per season scorers other clubs have in their ranks.

*sigh*

 

[JonS]

I actually think he was massively helped by Bolasie's injury. It forced him to stop what he was doing (going back to front early and often) and had him using the skill sets of the players in front of him and already here. That has made us much less one dimensional and he should really have done that from the off: been pragmatic and make himself adapt to the material at the club rather than the other way around, which was what he was doing: trying to turn us into a S'ton MkII with flying wingers and big bustling forwards getting on the end of long passes and crosses in from wide and deep. HE has moved towards the squad's strengths - that's what's happened.

My fear is that once he has Bolasie back and gets a different type of striker in (regardless of whether Lukaku stays or goes, btw) then we'll see him revert back to his preferred way of operating. I saw his Feyenoord side often enough to know that what he did at S'ton and there is how he rolls. This at the moment is a bit of a departure for him at Everton. We play through midfield a lot more than those two teams of his at those clubs ever did.

I prefer us playing without wingers (prefer us using wingbacks). I find playing with two mercurial wingers a waste of 2 playing slots that can otherwise be given to a creative midfielder (eg Ross or Davies) or a second striker (eg Lookman)

 

[davek]

I prefer us playing without wingers (prefer us using wingbacks). I find playing with two mercurial wingers a waste of 2 playing slots that can otherwise be given to a creative midfielder (eg Ross or Davies) or a second striker (eg Lookman)

It depends on the quality. Would you turn down a Ribery or a Robben?

Wide players are fine. They just have to be more than a willing runner and workhorse.

 

[Prevenger17]

Sorry 4th under Moyes was better than your 72 points trophy, it's still 5th.

This is nonsense. The defence drill was still there in his first season. He got a core which finished 6th place in the previous season, improved it by 1 place (yea 5th still) and 9 points and you are making RM like a godness figure. Since your miracle season, he showed what he is made of by putting his ideas into the team and the freefall began.

Martinez is a fluke why don't just accept it? 21 wins in 75 matches. Non-defendable. Please stop giving an answer which is not relating to the orginial question.

And the reason why I made these replies is because of your daily praising of a fraud and degrading our current manager in Koeman, stripping off every credit he is due. You are making me dislike RM even more actually Dave.

Accept defeat

 

[davek]

Another extract here from Phil Kirkbrides match report in the Liverpool Echo.

As said: Steady Eddie.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Kendall to Clough stated and coached it, very simply you don't loose if you don't concead.
Koemen now has us back to being organised fitter and stronger, thus much more difficult to score against, ignoring 2013 to 2016, we are back to being competitive in every match, no one I fear in this league now.

 

[Stutheblue]

Next week will be a good gauge of where we are. Its not been a good ground for us in recent seasons. They're a very good side too. We've been on a good run lately, so lets see.