Ronald Koeman discussion

[jimmythenut]

We played with a lot of atacking style under Martinez - committing numbers to attack. We dont do that under Koeman. We just dont and it's no use arguing we do. We rely on one player to get the goals, and he is having to because no one else chips in as they dont get into positions to.

Our record for having a decent spread of goalscorers this season is utter muck.

Of course we don't commit as many numbers forward under Koeman. But Why is that such a bad thing if it's helping us win games ? We leaked so many goals under Martinez, especially from winning positions.

Look at Klopp's team right now, fantastic when they've got 7 attacking players hounding the opposition. But look at their defence, it's powder puff.

Koemans found a balance. It's getting results. If we are trailing vs Spurs tomorrow guarentee Koeman will sacrifice a defensive minded player for more flair and pace. He's understands game management - unlike RM.

 

[vagant59]

There is one thing that Ronald and Roberto have in common and that is they are both going to make davek look a complete spoon

 

[davek]

26/38 games this season
No. Player; League; FA Cup; EFLC; Europe Total

10 Lukaku 17 1 0 0 18
8 Barkley 4 0 1 0 5
23 Coleman 5 0 0 0 5
3 Baines 3 0 0 0 3
11 Mirallas 3 0 0 0 3
9 Kone 0 0 2 0 2
18 Barry 2 0 0 0 2
5 Williams 1 0 0 0 1
12 Lennon 0 0 1 0 1
14 Bolasie 1 0 0 0 1
16 McCarthy 1 0 0 0 1
17 Gana 1 0 0 0 1
19 Valencia 1 0 0 0 1
26 Davies 1 0 0 0 1
31 Lookman 1 0 0 0 1
og 1 0 0 0 1
15players

Last Season 38/38.
No. Player; League; FA Cup; COLC Europe Total
10 Lukaku 18 3 4 0 25
20 Barkley 8 2 2 0 12
9 Kone 5 2 0 0 7
11 Mirallas 4 1 1 0 6
12 Lennon 5 1 0 0 6
25 Funes Mori 4 0 1 0 5
99 og 3 1 1 0 5
14 Naismith 3 0 1 0 4
19 Deulofeu 2 0 2 0 4
3 Baines 2 0 0 0 2
15 Cleverley 2 0 0 0 2
16 McCarthy 2 0 0 0 2
21 Osman 0 0 1 0 1
23 Coleman 1 0 0 0 1
14players

In the best Panto tradition...'Oh no it isn't.'

You obviously cant interpret your own data mate...it makes my point for me. Doesn't matter how many/little are scored by all players. It matters that we dont have players behind Lukaku who can weigh in with 8/9 goals.

 

[davek]

Do enjoy a bit of hyperbole...

I feel it's more to do with a stronger central midfield due to the emergence of Davies, getting Schneiderlein in and the return of Gueye which has allowed us to change how we play. This just happened to coincide with the injury imo.

Koeman said after the Arsenal win that was how he wanted us to play on a regular basis, that was one of our best performance this season don't you reckon? If he wants us to keep that up, which he has mostly so far, then I'll be happy is a pig in you know what

The change in style began before Schneiderlin. All that happened was that Davies took Gueye's place. It wasn't down to addition of personnel, it was down to a necessary change in approach to his preferred modus operandi.

 

[davek]

http://toffeeweb.com/season/15-16/goalscorers.php

http://toffeeweb.com/season/16-17/goalscorers.php

Hardly an alarming difference and the season is only 3/4 of the way through.

5 with 5 or more league goals even last season in comparison with one at present this season.

It's an issue. It needs to be resolved, because if Lukaku goes or gets injured we are knackered.

 

[Titus Bramble]

The change in style began before Schneiderlin. All that happened was that Davies took Gueye's place. It wasn't down to addition of personnel, it was down to a necessary change in approach to his preferred modus operandi.

I know. Then Gueye came back into a midfield with the above 2 mentioned already in it, hence why we're playing better. So it's been a change of approach due to an improved central midfield.

I'll assume you agree with all the other stuff I've posted in reply to you since you've ignored it.

Pleasure talking to you old chap

 

[davek]

Of course we don't commit as many numbers forward under Koeman. But Why is that such a bad thing if it's helping us win games ? We leaked so many goals under Martinez, especially from winning positions.

Look at Klopp's team right now, fantastic when they've got 7 attacking players hounding the opposition. But look at their defence, it's powder puff.

Koemans found a balance. It's getting results. If we are trailing vs Spurs tomorrow guarentee Koeman will sacrifice a defensive minded player for more flair and pace. He's understands game management - unlike RM.

We're 7th mate. If we want that to improve next season then we need to be more bold. The stabilisers have to come off and this team has to push forward as a unit a hell of a lot more than they have this season.

Lukaku has slotted out of his skin. If he hadn't we would be midtable right now.

 

[davek]

I know. Then Gueye came back into a midfield with the above 2 mentioned already in it, hence why we're playing better. So it's been a change of approach due to an improved central midfield.

I'll assume you agree with all the other stuff I've posted in reply to you since you've ignored it.

Pleasure talking to you old chap

Thats not right mate. We were in our stride before Gueye left for the ACNs. Gueye stepped out and Davies stepped in for a pretty much like for like move. Schneiderlin came late to the party at the end of January.

Koeman is stating this is the way he wanted to play because the enforced change in approach got the results, nothing pre-planned about it, and he's telling a whopper saying otherwise.

 

[degsy]

You obviously cant interpret your own data mate...it makes my point for me. Doesn't matter how many/little are scored by all players. It matters that we dont have players behind Lukaku who can weigh in with 8/9 goals.

You make a statement (pose the question)

Our record for having a decent spread of goalscorers this season is utter muck

I show it is not so; 15 Vs 14
so you change the question

davek; channeling his inner Gladstone...

“Gladstone .. spent his declining years trying to guess the answer to the Irish Question; unfortunately, whenever he was getting warm, the Irish secretly changed the Question, ...”
― W.C. Sellar, 1066 and All That: A Memorable History of England

 

[Nymzee]

5 with 5 or more league goals even last season in comparison with one at present this season.

It's an issue. It needs to be resolved, because if Lukaku goes or gets injured we are knackered.

Erm nope 4:

Lukaku 18 (Currently 17 with 12 games to go)
Barkley 8 (Currently 4 with 12 games to go)
Kone 5 (Lookman by comparison 1 with 12 games to go)
Lennon 5 (Bolasie by comparison 1 out for the season)

Kev had 4 last season, 3 this season.
Coleman had 1, now 5.
Baines had 2, now 3.

Again all with 12 games left to play.

Indefensible argument right here.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Thats not right mate. We were in our stride before Gueye left for the ACNs. Gueye stepped out and Davies stepped in for a pretty much like for like move. Schneiderlin came late to the party at the end of January.

Koeman is stating this is the way he wanted to play because the enforced change in approach got the results, nothing pre-planned about it, and he's telling a whopper saying otherwise.

Gueye starts:
Everton 1-1 Utd
Watford 3-2 Everton
Everton 0-1 kopites
Leicester 0-2 Everton (Davies played last 20)
Hull 2-2 Everton (Davies plays last 25)

Gueye and Davies starts:
Everton 3-0 Southampton

This is when Gueye leaves for the African cup and Davies became a starter. We've won 4, drawn 2 since then.

Still think we were well in our stride before Gueye left?

 

[jinkyali]

They've gone from abhorrent to watchable.

I also said that it's short lived and has been forced on Koeman by Bolasie's injury, so I dont think we can make any declaration about corners turned stylistically.

As far as I'm concerned, and what I know of him, this is a very un-Koeman like style of play we have at the moment, apart from the work-rate demanded. We'll see next season whether he reverts back to some midway point between this game we play right now and the long ball muck served up for most of the season. As said yesterday, I think that will be dictated largely by Lukaku's decision to stay or go. If he goes I expect a vastly different type of striker(s) and a much different approach to our attacking play.

@davek
Be interested to hear what you dem to be a typical Koeman style of play?

 

[The Fonz]

This thread is going round in circles

 

[Amw79]

You obviously cant interpret your own data mate...it makes my point for me. Doesn't matter how many/little are scored by all players. It matters that we dont have players behind Lukaku who can weigh in with 8/9 goals.

I agree with Dave here, we definately need a couple of other players to weigh in with ~10 goals a year. Barkley currently on 4 is the best chance, and he's been guilty of a few bad misses this season (has still been great overall for a few months though). Still plenty of time for him to double that tally though.

Other than that you're looking to Lookman/Mirrales and maybe Davies to get more between them.

But this does happen when you've got a striker who slots 20 goals a year, you can become over reliant, and Koeman obviously knows this - hence the Gabbiadini / Befodil(?) links, which didn't happen in the end.

Irrespective of the Rom situation in the summer, a player in here who can throw in a double figure goal return, must be high up on the wanted list.

 

[davek]

You make a statement (pose the question)

I show it is not so; 15 Vs 14
so you change the question

davek; channeling his inner Gladstone...

“Gladstone .. spent his declining years trying to guess the answer to the Irish Question; unfortunately, whenever he was getting warm, the Irish secretly changed the Question, ...”
― W.C. Sellar, 1066 and All That: A Memorable History of England

No mate. I think most reasonable people wouldn't argue that three players getting one each is not the same input as one player getting 8 or 9.

Scoring wise we are Lukaku + luggage - and that needs looking at.