Ronald Koeman discussion

PhilM · March 5, 2017

Paul w said:
Ronald is arsenal bound it seems or Barca depending on which paper you read.

I read the Viz and there's no mention of him leaving so he's staying.

davek · March 5, 2017

Nymzee said:
Still awaiting your rebuddle to this debate @davek or have facts stumped you.

It's been answered decisively.

We have Lukaku and then a massive gap to anyone else. We have almost zero firepower in behind Lukaku.

This season so far our five top scorers are:

Lukaku 17
Coleman 4
Barkley 4
Mirallas 3
Baines 2

Last season our top scorers were:

Lukaku 18
Barkley 8
Lennon 5
Kone 5
Mori 4

The season before that our top scorers were:

Lukaku 10
Mirallas 7
Naismith 7
Jagielka 4
Coleman 3

And the season before that one our top scorers were:

Lukaku 15
Mirallas 7
Naismith 6
Barkley 6
Coleman 6

In bold the players you look to to get on the scoresheet and provide options in attack.

Quite clearly this season (and though there's still 12 games to go to improve this) we are overly reliant on Lukaku upfront to get the goals for us.

mill · March 5, 2017

davek said:
It's been answered decisively.

We have Lukaku and then a massive gap to anyone else. We have almost zero firepower in behind Lukaku.

This season so far our five top scorers are:

Lukaku 17
Coleman 4
Barkley 4
Mirallas 3
Baines 2

Last season our top scorers were:

Lukaku 18
Barkley 8
Lennon 5
Kone 5
Mori 4

The season before that our top scorers were:

Lukaku 10
Mirallas 7
Naismith 7
Jagielka 4
Coleman 3

And the season before that one our top scorers were:

Lukaku 15
Mirallas 7
Naismith 6
Barkley 6
Coleman 6

In bold the players you look to to get on the scoresheet and provide options in attack.

Quite clearly this season (and though there's still 12 games to go to improve this) we are overly reliant on Lukaku upfront to get the goals for us.

Are the previous seasons' stats from the same stage in the season or are they end of season stats?

To be honest looking at the figures, I'm not sure the difference between this season and previous seasons is statistically significant.

Nymzee · March 5, 2017

davek said:
It's been answered decisively.

This season so far our five top scorers are:

Lukaku 17
Coleman 4
Barkley 4
Mirallas 3
Baines 2

Last season our top scorers were:

Lukaku 18
Barkley 8
Lennon 5
Kone 5
Mori 4

Quite clearly this season (and though there's still 12 games to go to improve this) we are overly reliant on Lukaku upfront to get the goals for us.

Right but with 12 games to go like you've said, how has the makeup of our goalscorers really changed between 2 very different maangers?

To equal last season's totals with the next dozen games we need:

Lukaku 1 goal.
Barkley 4 more goals.
Coleman 1 goal.
Mirallas 2 goals.
Baines 2 goals.

If over the next 12 games these are achieved or bettered how can you argue we're only now over-reliant on Lukaku and don't attack as a team as much as the last regime when even as it stands they're pretty damn close?

This was your original point: "We played with a lot of atacking style under Martinez - committing numbers to attack. We dont do that under Koeman. We just dont and it's no use arguing we do. We rely on one player to get the goals, and he is having to because no one else chips in as they dont get into positions to."

You're saying here we now rely on one person when we clearly always have.

banno · March 5, 2017

larbert toffee said:
I'm not a scouser

Don't diss the scousers then and carry on with the sheep.

Saint Domingo · March 5, 2017

davek said:
It's been answered decisively.

We have Lukaku and then a massive gap to anyone else. We have almost zero firepower in behind Lukaku.

This season so far our five top scorers are:

Lukaku 17
Coleman 4
Barkley 4
Mirallas 3
Baines 2

Last season our top scorers were:

Lukaku 18
Barkley 8
Lennon 5
Kone 5
Mori 4

The season before that our top scorers were:

Lukaku 10
Mirallas 7
Naismith 7
Jagielka 4
Coleman 3

And the season before that one our top scorers were:

Lukaku 15
Mirallas 7
Naismith 6
Barkley 6
Coleman 6

In bold the players you look to to get on the scoresheet and provide options in attack.

Quite clearly this season (and though there's still 12 games to go to improve this) we are overly reliant on Lukaku upfront to get the goals for us.

Managerial one upping aside, this is a fair point. We have a striker scoring the same number as the title challengers, we are in the top 6 defences in the league, yet we are 7th. If Barkley could get up to 15 goals and another player chip in with 10 we'd be CL challengers. That's what Lampard did playing off Drogba. Now that we have Schneiderlin and Gueye it's not enough for Barkley to knit the play together. As great as it is to blood young players, if Davies Lookman and Barkley are to keep their places they have to score.

davek · March 5, 2017

Nymzee said:
Right but with 12 games to go like you've said, how has the makeup of our goalscorers really changed between 2 very different maangers?

To equal last season's totals with the next dozen games we need:

Lukaku 1 goal.
Barkley 4 more goals.
Coleman 1 goal.
Mirallas 2 goals.
Baines 2 goals.

If over the next 12 games these are achieved or bettered how can you argue we're only now over-reliant on Lukaku and don't attack as a team as much as the last regime when even as it stands they're pretty damn close?

This was your original point: "We played with a lot of atacking style under Martinez - committing numbers to attack. We dont do that under Koeman. We just dont and it's no use arguing we do. We rely on one player to get the goals, and he is having to because no one else chips in as they dont get into positions to."

You're saying here we now rely on one person when we clearly always have.

The point is we need players in the rest of the attack/attacking midfield weighing in with 7/8 goals each...or at least a couple of them to do that. We are way off that with 12 matches left.

There's no question that this season we have relied inordinately on Lukaku.

davek · March 5, 2017

Saint Domingo said:
Managerial one upping aside, this is a fair point. We have a striker scoring the same number as the title challengers, we are in the top 6 defences in the league, yet we are 7th. If Barkley could get up to 15 goals and another player chip in with 10 we'd be CL challengers. That's what Lampard did playing off Drogba. Now that we have Schneiderlin and Gueye it's not enough for Barkley to knit the play together. As great as it is to blood young players, if Davies Lookman and Barkley are to keep their places they have to score.

It's not down to personnel that they haven't chipped in with more, it's down to the approach play.

Not committing numbers to counter attacking will result in an imbalance like the one we have this season...and woe betide any team playing like that who dont have one of the top strikers in the country on form playing for them.

Kev50 · March 5, 2017

davek said:
It's not down to personnel that they haven't chipped in with more, it's down to the approach play.

Not committing numbers to counter attacking will result in an imbalance like the one we have this season...and woe betide any team playing like that who dont have one of the top strikers in the country on form playing for them.

I used to think that, but then we replaced Lineker with Adrian and the goals rained in from everywhere. if you put a different player in there up top it changes the whole dynamic, you can't just say, 'how are we going to replace the goals'

davek · March 5, 2017

Kev50 said:
I used to think that, but then we replaced Lineker with Adrian and the goals rained in from everywhere. if you put a different player in there up top it changes the whole dynamic, you can't just say, 'how are we going to replace the goals'

But the Lineker example was from a point where we had our best ever manager and team who could adapt to anything.

I can just see us replacing Lukaku with a Llorente type and he bags 9 for the season and a couple of the the best of the rest of ours chip in with 6/7 goals.

Lowste · March 5, 2017

If arsenal do come in for him he will go, Everton were a step up from Sothampton and arsenal are a step up from Everton....simple

Nymzee · March 5, 2017

davek said:
The point is we need players in the rest of the attack/attacking midfield weighing in with 7/8 goals each...or at least a couple of them to do that. We are way off that with 12 matches left.

There's no question that this season we have relied inordinately on Lukaku.

I'll come back to this in May and see where we've ended up but I project nothing different between the previous and current regime.

royalblue66 · March 5, 2017

Simon Jordan ex Crystal Palace owner, reckons Spurs manager going to Barca, and Ronnie going to Spurs, I kid you not.

Cork Evertonian · March 5, 2017

Koeman learned his trade under Johan Cruyff as a player under him at Barcelona and Ajax.He did a very good job at Ajax as manager winning a league and cup double in his first season and another league title in his last full season at Ajax.Ajax also reached the quarter finals of the champions league where they lost narrowly to AC Milan who went on to win the thing.He would have won even more at Ajax but the board undermined him when they forced Louis Van Gall on him as a director of football so he quit.In summer 2011 he took over a Feyenoord team that finished 14th the previous season.Under Koeman Feyenoord finished 2nd 3rd and 2nd.He left a very good foundation for Giovanni Van Bronkhorst to build on.Feyenoord won the Dutch cup last season.

This season Feyenoord are leading the Eredivisie by 5 points.If they hold out Koeman can take his share of the credit for both the cup win last season and a first league title win since 1999.Obviously as an Evertonian and Ajacied i would prefer that didn't happen!But he picked up a football club on it's knees at Feyenoord and got it moving in the right direction again.He's doing the same at Everton.So far this season we have genuine hopes of finishing in a europa league spot.If we beat Spurs today it would sent out a serious message to the rest of the league that we are a force to be reckoned with again.It would also pipe down the naysayers like Davek!To be honest im quite confident that we are going to lay down a serious marker at White Hart Lane today.

Barnfred 55 · March 5, 2017

davek said:
The point is we need players in the rest of the attack/attacking midfield weighing in with 7/8 goals each...or at least a couple of them to do that. We are way off that with 12 matches left.

There's no question that this season we have relied inordinately on Lukaku.

TBH we've relied far too much on Rom in all four of those seasons. I know you're using it as a stick to beat Koeman with with Dave, but I think we need to look at the bigger picture. Our reliance on Lukaku since he's been here is criminal. I've looked at the other teams up and around us and, apart from Spurs who are heavily reliant on Kane/Barkley, the rest all have 4/5 attack minded players chipping in. Hate to say it but the RS spread theirs pretty evenly around 5 players.

I know Ross has had an up and down season which hasn't helped, but the sad truth is that we failed miserably to bring in a second striker and goal scoring midfielder in both windows this season. Something we have to properly address in the summer.