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Ronald Koeman discussion

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LouReedwalkonthewildside said:
Problem is though mate there have been plenty of games where the way we have set - up has isolated Lukaku, I would imagine in those games the plan was for certain players to support Rom as well, but it doesn't work.
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That's probably right. I think it just highlights that we are still 2 or three decent signings away from competing at the top. For example, stick a big, fast centre back in the middle of our team yesterday, and have a genuine second striker, instead of utilising a young midfielder with talent and enthusiasm but little experience, and we would have gone close to winning. Spurs became more vulnerable as the game went on, and we were attacking in numbers towards the end. Koeman is not yet able to trust the players to play a cagier game, and at present we are better going forward. This is not always possible against top sides, and Spurs, apart from Chelsea, are the best side in the league by an increasing distance. Next season, with a reasonable summer window, and without the departure of any major cogs(Lukaku, Koeman,Gueye) we will be a lot better.
I think the progress under Koeman has been good...it was never going to be spectacular. The seeds have been sown, the hard part is still to come......
 
BlueToff said:
Why be so negative?

It's our first defeat of 2017 fgs.

Just goes to show that we have a lot of work still to do to bridge the gap.
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It probably is an overreaction but it sometimes feels like Groundhog Day with Everton, regardless of the manager regardless of the players we see the same traits continuing over decades. If we'd have come off second best in a end to end shoot out where we gave s good account of ourselves I wouldn't complain that much, but come on this was straight out of the Moyes playbook. Bizarre team selection, square pegs in round holes, super defensive set up, players looking like deer in headlights unable to even get a foothold in the game, good players doing stuff wildly out of character. We berated Moyes for doing this with far lesser players but even with better players and a better manager it persists. Complete non performances at Stamford Bridge and v Liverpool at Goodison, smash and grab at the Etihad clinging on for life, same at WHL (could have been far worse but for Joel). Do you really think it will be any different at Anfield?
 
People seem to be under estimating Spurs, they are 2nd in league won their previous 8 home games including beating Chelsea and won the last 2 home games 4-0 against Stoke and West Brom.

I've agree he made a mistake playing Barry but all manager do, (Wenger has Sanchez on the bench?) their is no doubt we have improved since Christmas but going to WHL and expecting to win when we haven't won there for 9 years is mad. 3-2 wasn't a bad result in the end, could have easily been 4-0 to them.
 
Steve Wigan said:
That's probably right. I think it just highlights that we are still 2 or three decent signings away from competing at the top. For example, stick a big, fast centre back in the middle of our team yesterday, and have a genuine second striker, instead of utilising a young midfielder with talent and enthusiasm but little experience, and we would have gone close to winning. Spurs became more vulnerable as the game went on, and we were attacking in numbers towards the end. Koeman is not yet able to trust the players to play a cagier game, and at present we are better going forward. This is not always possible against top sides, and Spurs, apart from Chelsea, are the best side in the league by an increasing distance. Next season, with a reasonable summer window, and without the departure of any major cogs(Lukaku, Koeman,Gueye) we will be a lot better.
I think the progress under Koeman has been good...it was never going to be spectacular. The seeds have been sown, the hard part is still to come......
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Some good points mate. For me though whether Koeman trusts the players yet to play a certain way he has to start taking a bit more of a risk. Was saying to my lad that when we play the RS in a few weeks it will probably be more of the same, Koeman will be more worried about them and will be negative from the off. he'll start a load of centre - mids, Lukaku will be isolated, we'll have no width, we'll be knocking the ball around short because there'll be no movement, and the RS will just press us all over the gaff.

Really don't understand why Koeman seems to have ditched going 3 at the back, we look more solid defensively and more of a threat going forward, we get the width from Coleman and Baines and Lukaku doesn't get isolated with someone up there with him.

Whilst Spurs have been fantastic this season, especially at home, there can't be any excuses if the RS turn us over.
 

MrGrumpy said:
People seem to be under estimating Spurs, they are 2nd in league won their previous 8 home games including beating Chelsea and won the last 2 home games 4-0 against Stoke and West Brom.

I've agree he made a mistake playing Barry but all manager do, (Wenger has Sanchez on the bench?) their is no doubt we have improved since Christmas but going to WHL and expecting to win when we haven't won there for 9 years is mad. 3-2 wasn't a bad result in the end, could have easily been 4-0 to them.
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Barry was a massive mistake, but the biggest difference for me yesterday was the aggressiveness in pressing. when they had the ball the pressing from us wasn't great, the moment they gave it away and we had it it felt like they where playing with 20 men.

Koeman must be fuming at that, he always bangs on about aggressive pressing, but i thought that part of it was poor yesterday for the first time for a while. Barry does impact this, he has done whenever he played - that was a mistake.
 
LouReedwalkonthewildside said:
Some good points mate. For me though whether Koeman trusts the players yet to play a certain way he has to start taking a bit more of a risk. Was saying to my lad that when we play the RS in a few weeks it will probably be more of the same, Koeman will be more worried about them and will be negative from the off. he'll start a load of centre - mids, Lukaku will be isolated, we'll have no width, we'll be knocking the ball around short because there'll be no movement, and the RS will just press us all over the gaff.

Really don't understand why Koeman seems to have ditched going 3 at the back, we look more solid defensively and more of a threat going forward, we get the width from Coleman and Baines and Lukaku doesn't get isolated with someone up there with him.

Whilst Spurs have been fantastic this season, especially at home, there can't be any excuses if the RS turn us over.
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I think Koeman is a bit cautious about overplaying Holgate, after the lad had one poor half, and Holgate would be the one to come in for three at the back, a system which requires at least two pacier defenders. Really, three at the back is the attack minded form of five at the back, with the slower, supposedly steady experienced defender(Williams) becoming a bit like an old fashioned sweeper.
 
Steve Wigan said:
I think Koeman is a bit cautious about overplaying Holgate, after the lad had one poor half, and Holgate would be the one to come in for three at the back, a system which requires at least two pacier defenders.
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Think the way Stoke just kept lumping high balls at us was a bit of a learning curve for Holgate, he'll have taken that in and come back stronger.
 

He has got to recognise that back four is utter [Poor language removed] and well past it's sell by date. He needs to get Keane in the summer along with 2 full backs. If he's going to set us up negatively against teams away from home then he should do a better job of it.
 
Zezti said:
Summed up well. I also thought the initial team choice was suitable and even when behind it never looked like we in dire need of a change. Individual mistakes cost us today; many misplaced passes/crosses, sloppy defending and goalkeeper error. Koeman can't be to blame for that.
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My thoughts exactly. Koeman said the same in his post match interview - you can't expect to make so many mistakes agains Tottenham at WHL and win. I watched their last two home games against West Brom and Stoke and they were over after 20 mins. I think it would have been madness to go there and try to outplay them because they are simply better atm.
I saw some very good points about how we have to play against the RS. From what I have seen this season, any team that tried to play an open game against them at Anfield, suffered greatly. I think we have to copy the Chelsea tactics which nearly brought them 3 points - to try to close them down quickly and not to give them space. And we will have to be much better with our passing than we were in the Spurs game.
 
chazzle_dazzle said:
Barry was a massive mistake, but the biggest difference for me yesterday was the aggressiveness in pressing. when they had the ball the pressing from us wasn't great, the moment they gave it away and we had it it felt like they where playing with 20 men.

Koeman must be fuming at that, he always bangs on about aggressive pressing, but i thought that part of it was poor yesterday for the first time for a while. Barry does impact this, he has done whenever he played - that was a mistake.
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Yep Koeman got it wrong.

We pressed them late on as McCarthy was on and that put their defence under some pressure.

Barry, finally, is done as a starter. He can't be relied upon anymore. At 36 that's no shame, but the manager needs to know this.
 
TrixyStevens said:
He has got to recognise that back four is utter [Poor language removed] and well past it's sell by date. He needs to get Keane in the summer along with 2 full backs. If he's going to set us up negatively against teams away from home then he should do a better job of it.
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Baines and Coleman were fine yesterday and have been very good this season.

Funes and Williams isn't reliable as a back two as both have very little pace and aren't great on the ball.
 
No team has won at White Hart Lane this season in the league.It just confirms what we already knew.We are well ahead of the also rans in the league but the elite sides in the top 6 are still a bit ahead of us.We have made a lot of progress this season but there's still a lot to do before we become an elite side.I have no doubt though that we will get there in time.We have to focus know on finishing the season as strong as we can.Then get the players we need in the summer to make the leap from a very good team to an elite team.In Koeman We Trust.
 

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