Ronald Koeman discussion

[MikeH72]

Pretty sure that includes 3 points won by David Unsworth at the end of last season as well.

 

[PhilM]

We haven't bottled it in any games this season.

We've been beaten by the better side on two occasions (Spurs and RS away) and were incredibly unlucky in the home derby (albeit we did play very badly in the second half as a result of McCarthy getting injured).

I'm not an advocate of the phrase 'bottling it', but personally how we played (or did not play) at Analfield would adequately fill that description.

They were the better team on the day no doubt, however they certainly did not play well or were forced to play anywhere near their peak ability.

Why? Because we did not turn up on the day. People may mention injured players etc but those who did play bar one or two were shambolic.

Spurs on the other hand were the better side and perhaps our tactical naivety with the way we set up gave us too much to do in the second half.

 

[BlueToff]

I'm not an advocate of the phrase 'bottling it', but personally how we played (or did not play) at Analfield would adequately fill that description.

They were the better team on the day no doubt, however they certainly did not play well or were forced to play anywhere near their peak ability.

Why? Because we did not turn up on the day. People may mention injured players etc but those who did play bar one or two were shambolic.

Spurs on the other hand were the better side and perhaps our tactical naivety with the way we set up gave us too much to do in the second half.

I think if anything Koeman was a bit too 'bold' in his selection at Anfield, which in a round-a-bout way ironically led to us being more negative.

I think it's clear the plan was always a back three, which has actually made us a more potent attacking team this season if anything.

However, Koeman should - in hindsight - have changed that tact when key players to that system (Coleman, Macca/Snides and Funes) got crocked. He went with youth and inexperience and we never got the shape right.

We didn't play as well as we should have done but I don't think that constitutes bottling it. But fair enough it's only semantics.

Koeman is far from perfect though and does have a long way to go. It'll be interesting to see how we and he cope with the demands of the EL should we qualify.

However, as far as debut seasons go it's not being bad, he's put us right back where we should've been for the past two years, rather than mid-table.

 

[PhilM]

Koeman is far from perfect though and does have a long way to go. It'll be interesting to see how we and he cope with the demands of the EL should we qualify.

However, as far as debut seasons go it's not being bad, he's put us right back where we should've been for the past two years, rather than mid-table.

I've said it previously and I know many disagree, but for me the Europa League next season may be more of a hindrance than a reward.

Competing in Europe and travelling away as a fan is fantastic and the part I love , however I look at how Spurs and Manure have recently faired...

...and it concerns me. Not least because of the demands on the players, hence the Summer being even more vital, but also lack of preparation etc.

If we qualify then obviously I'll support the Blues wholeheartedly, but a part of me does think another year without the EL could be beneficial.

In the long-term at least! I haven't forgotten about the 'draw' of European football either, but doubt the EL does that much in that department.

 

[Nymzee]

I've said it previously and I know many disagree, but for me the Europa League next season may be more of a hindrance than a reward.

Competing in Europe and travelling away as a fan is fantastic and the part I love , however I look at how Spurs and Manure have recently faired...

...and it concerns me. Not least because of the demands on the players, hence the Summer being even more vital, but also lack of preparation etc.

If we qualify then obviously I'll support the Blues wholeheartedly, but a part of me does think another year without the EL could be beneficial.

In the long-term at least! I haven't forgotten about the 'draw' of European football either, but doubt the EL does that much in that department.

It will be a hindrance but it's also more attractive to potential signings.

 

[Lanolin]

We haven't bottled it in any games this season.

We've been beaten by the better side on two occasions (Spurs and RS away) and were incredibly unlucky in the home derby (albeit we did play very badly in the second half as a result of McCarthy getting injured).

Messed up in the cups but it wasn't due to fielding second-string line-ups. The players weren't good enough on the days in question.

I hate it when people put everything down to 'bottling it' but...if previous years performances can be put down to bottling it then so can this years. The fact is we've only lost 3 home games all season, and they were probably 3 of the most important ones. We've also failed to banish the curse of the big away games, despite having led in two of them. Our away form in general has been pretty patchy too. So while I personally don't put it down to bottling, I don't accept that there has been a significant mentality change from previous years.

Despite all that, I'm definitely happy with the work Koeman has done overall.

 

[BlueToff]

I've said it previously and I know many disagree, but for me the Europa League next season may be more of a hindrance than a reward.

Competing in Europe and travelling away as a fan is fantastic and the part I love , however I look at how Spurs and Manure have recently faired...

...and it concerns me. Not least because of the demands on the players, hence the Summer being even more vital, but also lack of preparation etc.

If we qualify then obviously I'll support the Blues wholeheartedly, but a part of me does think another year without the EL could be beneficial.

In the long-term at least! I haven't forgotten about the 'draw' of European football either, but doubt the EL does that much in that department.

Yep that's true.

However, even long term, EL is a benefit for squad building IMO.

It means that we can go out and get better players because those players know they will get game time.

It's a double-edged sword though, entirely. We'll just have to see what happens.

 

[BlueToff]

I hate it when people put everything down to 'bottling it' but...if previous years performances can be put down to bottling it then so can this years. The fact is we've only lost 3 home games all season, and they were probably 3 of the most important ones. We've also failed to banish the curse of the big away games, despite having led in two of them. Our away form in general has been pretty patchy too. So while I personally don't put it down to bottling, I don't accept that there has been a significant mentality change from previous years.

Despite all that, I'm definitely happy with the work Koeman has done overall.

I'm not sure I've personally ever put down many results to bottling it.

I think the team/manager have bottled it on occasion, yes. But yeh I agree on the away form. That needs to be sorted out heading into next season, though it's not awful by any means, it's not been good enough to propel us into that top four battle. Just a few more points on the road (Boro, Stoke) against sides we should have beaten would've seen us up there.

 

[kithnou]

We haven't bottled it in any games this season.

We've been beaten by the better side on two occasions (Spurs and RS away) and were incredibly unlucky in the home derby (albeit we did play very badly in the second half as a result of McCarthy getting injured).

Messed up in the cups but it wasn't due to fielding second-string line-ups. The players weren't good enough on the days in question.

I thought he went into them all negative playing for a draw. Therefore highlighting the mental block the players are accused of.
Very happy with him overall, but would like to see that rectified with a better squad.

 

[PhilM]

Yep that's true.

However, even long term, EL is a benefit for squad building IMO.

It means that we can go out and get better players because those players know they will get game time.

It's a double-edged sword though, entirely. We'll just have to see what happens.

True. I just hope it doesn't sway Koeman's and Walsh's transfer dealings towards quantity rather than purely quality due to the extra demands.

As you said however, it's all speculation at the moment and will simply have to see what happens.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I'm not an advocate of the phrase 'bottling it', but personally how we played (or did not play) at Analfield would adequately fill that description.

They were the better team on the day no doubt, however they certainly did not play well or were forced to play anywhere near their peak ability.

Why? Because we did not turn up on the day. People may mention injured players etc but those who did play bar one or two were shambolic.

Spurs on the other hand were the better side and perhaps our tactical naivety with the way we set up gave us too much to do in the second half.

Chelsea was our worst performance of the season as evidenced by the score line but, in mitigation, we were up against it early doors due to poor keeping, plus Chelsea's performance was the best I've seen against us in recent years. They were absolutely outstanding on the day. Our performances against both Spurs and City away were also poor, which I put down to over negative team selection and tactics by the manager. Against the RS away we were hamstrung in team selection by injuries. However, in all of those games, the one connecting factor is that none of our players turned up (with the exception of Barkley at Spurs). Is that bottling or just inconsistency? Or perhaps they just have better players than us. Probably a cocktail of all three tbh.

But you could mention another half dozen less high profile games when the same happened. Palace and Fulham at home. Southampton, Bournemouth and Watford away off the top of my head.

I put the inconsistencies of the first half of the season down to Koeman settling in to the role and learning about his squad. Since then, I would say that we probably have the 7th best team/squad in the league, so where we are now is just about right. We aren't that far behind most of the teams above us though and you don't need to be a University professor to identify where we need strengthening. With the better players will hopefully come the confidence to go to some of these places and get positive results. Then the "bottlers" question will be dispatched to the side lines once and for all.

 

[BlueToff]

True. I just hope it doesn't sway Koeman's and Walsh's transfer dealings towards quantity rather than purely quality due to the extra demands.

As you said however, it's all speculation at the moment and will simply have to see what happens.

My hope is that given Koeman's willingness to blood the youngsters, it'll be a case of quality for the first team, and then maybe 1-2 additions to cover areas of the squad effected by injury (i.e. wing, rb) heading into the end of this season.

 

[PhilM]

My hope is that given Koeman's willingness to blood the youngsters, it'll be a case of quality for the first team, and then maybe 1-2 additions to cover areas of the squad effected by injury (i.e. wing, rb) heading into the end of this season.

I think that as fans then we also need to appreciate and accept where the priorities may lay next season. Will Koeman blood youth in the EL?

If so, it will relieve the pressure from the Premier League, however then we'd have to accept that we may not progress as far as we'd like.

Fighting 100% on both fronts from the outset wouldn't be entirely achievable.

 

[SamAsh]

Get the feeling we'll have a terrible start next season and start the season in January again.

 

[Caolam]

The Europa Cup will certainly test our squad, but surely that is the whole point. We have achieved a measure of success and that should give us a place in the Europa Cup,,we can take that place as seriously as we wish. We don't have to play our first 11 in the early games.
The Europa Cup is a side issue, the summer transfer window and it's comings and goings is now our big test.