Ronald Koeman discussion

[BlueToff]

A lot of our success in the back half of last season was based around Davies Barkley and Lukaku. We actually had a balanced midfield with pretty much a diamond and a wide forward supporting Lukaku. Now two of those players have gone and Davies is not in favour. We've gone from what was a balanced diamond to a 4231 where the deep 2 have zero creativity and the 3 have zero pace. It's also meant that the full backs are exposed whereas last season Davies helping Coleman on the right or Ganga with Baines on the left was a common site. I don't know why Koeman has changed what was a pretty solid formation getting the most out of his midfielders especially at home.

We've had to change because of the huge Lukaku-sized gap, though.

Davies hasn't been out of favour. He's played every game. He's just been crap mate. He's 18 and this will happen. He showed some glimpses yesterday so I'm sure he'll refind his form.

If we play a 4-3-3, it has to be a proper 4-3-3 - i.e. three strikers. Rooney, DCL and Sandro. We have them.

Then, you have three midfielders. It just means some of them have to miss out. I'm not arsed at all if Gylfi or Klaassen or Gueye or Davies don't start every game, just as long as we get the best out of which ones do start, and that means playing a system that suits.

If we go 4-2-3-1 in games, which is reasonable as well against certain teams, then play DCL as that central striker and make sure that at least one of the 3 behind him is an actual winger.

Again, if this means one of Rooney, Klaassen or Gylfi missing out, so be it. It's the point of having a squad.

Koeman is to blame for the last two results. Confident he'll sort it but it needs to be done quickly and he needs to stop being so stubborn with certain systems that just won't work.

 

[Abraders]

Klaassen has been in for stick from the start but whenever i've watched him (so every game for us) he's done just fine apart from yesterday.

Sandro is struggling but the system Koeman's used hasn't helped him at all. He isn't a lone striker for the Premier League.

Martina can't defend and if he plays it should be as a wing back.

Klaassen has me indifferent, as I sometimes think Ok he's got something going on, but then it's spoilt by a game like yesterday.

I personally don't think he imposes himself enough, and he's nothing like the player described to my friend who was living in Holland.

 

[mutley]

My problem with RK is I just can't see what he is trying. What is his preferred formation? What is his style of play? 3 windows now and I'm still none the wiser.

There's never been a system mate, as far as i could see it was play 4 or 5 at the back with 2 defensive midfielders and hope Rom can win us the game.
All summer i've said we need to look at the RS for the perfect example, they sold Sewerat and Brought in Lambert and Ballotelli and plummeted down the league,
what did we do ? we brought in a young kid from Spain lol

 

[Khalekan]

Let's all just agree that yesterday was [Poor language removed] [Poor language removed]. Move past it, hope lessons were learned and back our manager 4 league games in eh boys.

Indeed.

But that could be a cut and paste from after the Chelsea game.

And depressingly, it will most probably be a very apt post to cut and paste after OT next Sunday

But let's all just accept having our asses kicked by the big teams and quietly move on, eh boys.

 

[Paulie]

..yep, it's that chopping and changing that confuses me regarding a strategy. Inverted wingers or no wingers; 3 CBs or a flat back four. I'm hoping he stumbles on something, and that might be because if injuries and suspensions. I think we all want to enjoy watching our team play. If we are doing that it means we are creating chances and winning football matches.

Reminds me of me in footy manager when I'm desperately trying everything hoping I'll stumble upon a formation that finally clicks.

It's this lack of formation and style of play after a full season and 3 transfer windows that is worrying me.

 

[BlueToff]

Think his biggest problem Eggs is him trying to squeeze Sigurdsson, Klassen and Rooney into the starting 11, and playing Schneiderlin and Gana no matter who we're playing.

Schneiderlin and Gana for me should both start though. Not every game obviously but in most.

It's nonsense that they don't work together. They're not the same type of player and compliment each other well.

It's what's in front of them that matters.

The best we've played this season was that first half vs Split.

We had a balance. Klaassen was making some brilliant runs past Rooney and Mirallas and Lookman were stretching the game, with Gana sweeping up and Schneiderlin running it from deep.

Now, we can't play like that in every game, but we need at least one winger on the pitch if we go with that system.

If we go 4-3-3, then we don't go with wingers, we go with 3 of Rooney/Kev/DCL/Sandro/Lookman/Vlasic etc, and then utilise the midfielders as a flat three with a 'link' player as one of them (i.e. Sigurdsson as a playmaker).

In the latter formation, the width needs to come from full-backs, which is why Kenny needs to be given a go as well.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Klaassen has been in for stick from the start but whenever i've watched him (so every game for us) he's done just fine apart from yesterday.

Sandro is struggling but the system Koeman's used hasn't helped him at all. He isn't a lone striker for the Premier League.

Martina can't defend and if he plays it should be as a wing back.

Biggest gripe for me yesterday in regards to Sandro yesterday Toff was the amount of times he laid the ball off, and then just stood there instead of making some sort of run as an option for the player he laid the ball off to.

 

[BlueToff]

Reminds me of me in footy manager when I'm desperately trying everything hoping I'll stumble upon a formation that finally clicks.

It's this lack of formation and style of play after a full season and 3 transfer windows that is worrying me.

We had a style in the middle of last season that worked very well.

With Rom leaving, that has had to change. But Koeman should have known what he wanted to do with the team.

He doesn't seem to atm, which is the worry. I'm sure it'll come. It's been two bad games on the bounce where he's got it wrong. The sign of a good manager is to learn from his mistakes. Hopefully that happens sharpish.

 

[Tony Hibbert's 3rd leg]

Team that won 4-0 at home vs Man City last season

Robles
Coleman Holgate Williams Funes Baines
Davies Barry Barkley
Mirallas Lukaku

Players in the right positions. Width. Pace. Balance.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

Schneiderlin and Gana for me should both start though. Not every game obviously but in most.

It's nonsense that they don't work together. They're not the same type of player and compliment each other well.

It's what's in front of them that matters.

The best we've played this season was that first half vs Split.

We had a balance. Klaassen was making some brilliant runs past Rooney and Mirallas and Lookman were stretching the game, with Gana sweeping up and Schneiderlin running it from deep.

Now, we can't play like that in every game, but we need at least one winger on the pitch if we go with that system.

If we go 4-3-3, then we don't go with wingers, we go with 3 of Rooney/Kev/DCL/Sandro/Lookman/Vlasic etc, and then utilise the midfielders as a flat three with a 'link' player as one of them (i.e. Sigurdsson as a playmaker).

In the latter formation, the width needs to come from full-backs, which is why Kenny needs to be given a go as well.

Agree that against the better teams you start both Gana and Schneiderlin Toff, but yesterday they were both playing so deep it was ridiculous.

 

[BlueToff]

Biggest gripe for me yesterday in regards to Sandro yesterday Toff was the amount of times he laid the ball off, and then just stood there instead of making some sort of run as an option for the player he laid the ball off to.

Yep, it was poor from him.

It's why for me he's been so much better starting as a wide forward in a three. Whenever I saw him last season he was at his best picking the ball up in space and running at the defence from a wide position.

He's 22 and learning his trade still. Koeman needs to realise this 1 up top crap is only hindering the player.

 

[Death]

The same as he achieved with United's money

He needed 3 or 4 years he got a few months. Madness. It's almost 5 years and they still haven't turned it around in the league.

 

[Paulie]

We had a style in the middle of last season that worked very well.

With Rom leaving, that has had to change. But Koeman should have known what he wanted to do with the team.

He doesn't seem to atm, which is the worry. I'm sure it'll come. It's been two bad games on the bounce where he's got it wrong. The sign of a good manager is to learn from his mistakes. Hopefully that happens sharpish.

He needs to find a way of playing without Rom as soon as, or our season could end very quickly if not.

 

[People75]

well. Soo much for "the new Everton".

If this set up fails, im afraid of the consiquenses, over a long term basis.

If we end up sub 10, then we are going to struggle even more, to atract good strikers.

 

[BlueToff]

Agree that against the better teams you start both Gana and Schneiderlin Toff, but yesterday they were both playing so deep it was ridiculous.

That was mainly due to the players in front of them not pressing though Lou.

Spurs pressed from the start. We had no outlet so they had no reason to leave a man back, and so we just all sat deep.

If the forward players aren't upfield, then the central midfielders can't exactly do much can they?