Ronald Koeman discussion

[orly]

He's afraid to play our players who are playing the best, and actually fit into a shape that would give us balance. His subs seem good because his starting lineup is almost always awful.

It's clear to me that Davies, Kenny, DCL (despite his miss), and Vlasic should be starting every game for us going forward. Yet he still keeps trying to prove that that the players he bought somehow still deserve to get most of the playing time. They may all turn out to be wonderful signing but right now they don't give us the best chance to win.

Siggy looked good in the no 10 role centrally, so I'm fine with that but Davies should have been on the right and Vlasic on the left. Gana and Schneiderlin don't need to be in the lineup together every week. Especially yesterday.

?????????? What does this mean ??????? Surely in error ???????

 

[Khalekan]

I'm just saying the club could do that to back up this superficial intent that they have been saying for 18 months.

Personally I'll give him longer simply because i dont feel you can want the manager gone so quickly. It took me until west ham to realise Martinez wasn't changing, and I reckon we have a guaranteed win at Brighton so whatever happens Sunday, the picture isn't too bleak yet. The team clicking all of a sudden gives us a season again, especially a win against Chelsea does

No, sir.

There are no "guaranteed wins" for this team.....especially away from home where I believe it is January since we last picked up three points

 

[johnnydawg68]

?????????? What does this mean ??????? Surely in error ???????

 

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

He's afraid to play our players who are playing the best, and actually fit into a shape that would give us balance. His subs seem good because his starting lineup is almost always awful.

It's clear to me that Davies, Kenny, DCL (despite his miss), and Vlasic should be starting every game for us going forward. Yet he still keeps trying to prove that that the players he bought somehow still deserve to get most of the playing time. They may all turn out to be wonderful signing but right now they don't give us the best chance to win.

Siggy looked good in the no 10 role centrally, so I'm fine with that but Davies should have been on the right and Vlasic on the left. Gana and Schneiderlin don't need to be in the lineup together every week. Especially yesterday.

Agree wholeheartedly. It's almost as if the principle of "earn your place" is a mystery to Mr Koeman.

Sure, you need some experience in the team, but craming out of form same
Players into a team helps no one. Time on the bench might give them the kick they need.

 

[Saint Domingo]

David Moyes attitude, right there...

Sadly I fear that unless we have an Evertonian in charge any manager we have dill have this attitude. It's probably only Redknapp out of the current managers who recognise Everton as a significant force in football, the rest have now grown up weened on a diet of Liverpool/United/Chelsea. They are unable to tap into the psyche of the Everton supporter. Moyes was bewildered why uscfans wanted better than 5th or to win at places like Old Trafford. Koeman is the same, he thinks we're privileged just to have him and if he bores us into 7th then he'll see it as job done because in his eyes we have no right to expect higher.

Any manager who comes in and starts doing well will have the Martinez effect. That first season when he had stuff to prove, so did Lukaku, so did Barkley, it was great. Then all of a sudden everyone treated us like a stepping stone, Lukaku Stones Barkley all had eyes for other places, Martinez was being touted for Arsenal or Barca. A club can't operate this way and be successful, half the squad think they're too good for the club, the other half resent the players who are only playing for themselves.

It can't help the harmony in the squad when every man and his dog knows that Koeman thinks he's too good to be here and as soon as he does anything if more he'll be off.

I really think to get back to winning, after Koeman goes (not that I'm advocating this now) we need someone 100% commited to the club. Not someone who has a dream to manage United or Barcelona or grew up in awe of Liverpool. We need someone who realises the peak of their career will becrrsurrrcting Everton, who gives out a message to the players and the media that he is here to win. We can't have another stepping stone manager who thinks he's doing us a favour. As soon as Moyes/Martinez/Koeman thought they'd proven themselves enough and that we owed them for being here they went down the pan. We need someone who recognises that it is a privilege to manage us and that they have to strive for the best all the time. I genuinely think we need someone from this parish but it could work if the right manager was out there and got taken in by us.

 

[LEONARD]

Captain Koeman say's goodbye to the Good Ship Everton.

 

[dannyboy]

Sadly I fear that unless we have an Evertonian in charge any manager we have dill have this attitude. It's probably only Redknapp out of the current managers who recognise Everton as a significant force in football, the rest have now grown up weened on a diet of Liverpool/United/Chelsea. They are unable to tap into the psyche of the Everton supporter. Moyes was bewildered why uscfans wanted better than 5th or to win at places like Old Trafford. Koeman is the same, he thinks we're privileged just to have him and if he bores us into 7th then he'll see it as job done because in his eyes we have no right to expect higher.

Any manager who comes in and starts doing well will have the Martinez effect. That first season when he had stuff to prove, so did Lukaku, so did Barkley, it was great. Then all of a sudden everyone treated us like a stepping stone, Lukaku Stones Barkley all had eyes for other places, Martinez was being touted for Arsenal or Barca. A club can't operate this way and be successful, half the squad think they're too good for the club, the other half resent the players who are only playing for themselves.

It can't help the harmony in the squad when every man and his dog knows that Koeman thinks he's too good to be here and as soon as he does anything if more he'll be off.

I really think to get back to winning, after Koeman goes (not that I'm advocating this now) we need someone 100% commited to the club. Not someone who has a dream to manage United or Barcelona or grew up in awe of Liverpool. We need someone who realises the peak of their career will becrrsurrrcting Everton, who gives out a message to the players and the media that he is here to win. We can't have another stepping stone manager who thinks he's doing us a favour. As soon as Moyes/Martinez/Koeman thought they'd proven themselves enough and that we owed them for being here they went down the pan. We need someone who recognises that it is a privilege to manage us and that they have to strive for the best all the time. I genuinely think we need someone from this parish but it could work if the right manager was out there and got taken in by us.

Unsworth? Peter Reid? There's hardly a huge list of names to choose from.

If you want Everton to start winning trophies and being a force again then you need a fortune to be spent on the squad and a world class manager who won't come cheap either. Otherwise you're asking for a small Leicester style miracle and they probably come around once every twenty years.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Unsworth? Peter Reid? There's hardly a huge list of names to choose from.

If you want Everton to start winning trophies and being a force again then you need a fortune to be spent on the squad and a world class manager who won't come cheap either. Otherwise you're asking for a small Leicester style miracle and they probably come around once every twenty years.

Yes but even Man City haven't won loads despite unlimited pockets. Guardiola has gone in there, potentially the best manager in the world, and immediately starts saying it will take a decade until they're treated like United and it's not as easy for them to win like it is Barcelona or Bayern because they don't have that heritage. We're trying to shake the same stigma but at a far lower level with less money and nowhere near as good a coach.

If Koeman goes I'd let Unsworth have a go. He'd have a better bond with the fans and at least believe in the club.

 

[bicycleheader]

I really don't understand your logic, if Koeman isn't going to take us anywhere then why suffer another 18 months of the guy? They could sack him now, put Unsworth in charge and evaluate the situation in the summer. Leaving Koeman in charge, wasting money and damaging the club isn't doing anyone any good.

id prefer him not to have been installed and gone now today.

my point about leaving him in place was solely in reference to not trusting the club to organise the follow up well. that theyd manage the situation better if at the end of his contract than if they sacked him next week. its my only concern about changing managers now.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

Lacking in talent? You can't be serious?

The squad he took over included players who have since been sold to City, United and Barcelona, and another who would have gone to Chelsea if he hadn't decided not to. He then spent about £100m on new players, so if we were seriously lacking talent he has to take a lot of the blame.

People are criticising the use of 2 defensive midfielders because it led to us lacking control in the middle of the pitch. We couldn't use the ball well enough or move it quick enough, many people feel that sacrificing one of the DMs would have allowed us to exert control in the middle of the pitch, and thus relieve much of the pressure on the centre halves. It may also have meant we could score more than 2 ourselves, and mean the 2 we conceded were irrelevant. Football isn't as black and white as more defensive players = better defence, a balanced side which plays to its strengths is key.

Finally, what could he do about the centre halves? Not buy Williams perhaps? Spend some money on a new centre half instead of blowing 90% of the budget on 3 players for the same position?

Yes, in the second half of the year, that Everton team lacked talent due to various reasons. Joel Robles in goal. Gana and Morgan hurt quite a bit. Williams playing, although he wasn't this bad. Holgate playing. Mirallas. Valencia. It was the Rom and Barkley show. Davies was there. Finishing as well as he did with that lot was IMO impressive.

Now I disagree with your assertion about the 2 DMs. The 2 DMs didn't cause a lack of control in the middle of the pitch. We had complete control. Dominated possession. There wasn't ANY pressure on Williams and Holgate that I saw. At least none that wasn't self-created. Those DMs broke up plenty of counter attacks that would have exposed the center back, so they alleviated pressure on Williams and Holgate, not the opposite. Frankly, playing 2 DMs DOES play to our strengths, does it not? Beyond that, it's not Gana or Morgan's fault that there isn't any movement in front of them to pass to. That's the issue more than playing 2 DMs IMO.

I do admit and understand putting more pressure on the opposition and scoring more goals. I'm not against the idea of switching one out for an attacking player. Koeman did make that adjustment and it worked somewhat, even if it didn't result in more than a single goal. But even with 2 DMs, these guys haven't played much together and it's obvious we are lacking a CF and some fluidity - as a result, I can forgive only scoring 2 goals (barely, though). It's hard to score goals, it's going to take a bit of time for us to figure out the right combination of folks, especially against a team putting 10 people behind the ball. But to concede 2 goals against that lot? Come on, you gotta admit that's a much more shocking and worse crime than only scoring 2.

Obviously this team having another CB and CF, like Koeman wanted, would be a bit different. Williams' obvious regression was one that I think Ronnie predicted, but that's on Walsh and the board, not Koeman.

Regardless, you can't hold Koeman accountable for not buying another CB. There was also some circumstance - injuries to Mori and McCarthy as well as Ross being stubborn hurt our budget as much as anything. That's probably 60-70M in sales that we could've used to easily get a CF AND a CB. Might have been able to spend quite a bit more beyond that depending on who you believe. But that's still the fault of Walsh and the board moreso than Koeman.

So my point is that Koeman is responsible for tactics. He deserves to be ripped for some of it. But he can't conjure up new CBs out of nowhere.

 

[CRIMHEAD]

Thank god we didn't sign Vermaelen, injury prone and slower than Williams. Vermaelen and centre half we're only mentioned once Mori got injured. The money was there to sign a centre half to replace Williams, he chose to spend it on Klaasen.

Yet we offered $60M to sign Costa? Come on. And Vermaelen isn't slower than Williams, nor was he the only CB asked for. And stop blaming Koeman for spending money on players, he's the coach, not the D of F and not the board.

 

[moyes cardy]

Sadly I fear that unless we have an Evertonian in charge any manager we have dill have this attitude. It's probably only Redknapp out of the current managers who recognise Everton as a significant force in football, the rest have now grown up weened on a diet of Liverpool/United/Chelsea. They are unable to tap into the psyche of the Everton supporter. Moyes was bewildered why uscfans wanted better than 5th or to win at places like Old Trafford. Koeman is the same, he thinks we're privileged just to have him and if he bores us into 7th then he'll see it as job done because in his eyes we have no right to expect higher.

Any manager who comes in and starts doing well will have the Martinez effect. That first season when he had stuff to prove, so did Lukaku, so did Barkley, it was great. Then all of a sudden everyone treated us like a stepping stone, Lukaku Stones Barkley all had eyes for other places, Martinez was being touted for Arsenal or Barca. A club can't operate this way and be successful, half the squad think they're too good for the club, the other half resent the players who are only playing for themselves.

It can't help the harmony in the squad when every man and his dog knows that Koeman thinks he's too good to be here and as soon as he does anything if more he'll be off.

I really think to get back to winning, after Koeman goes (not that I'm advocating this now) we need someone 100% commited to the club. Not someone who has a dream to manage United or Barcelona or grew up in awe of Liverpool. We need someone who realises the peak of their career will becrrsurrrcting Everton, who gives out a message to the players and the media that he is here to win. We can't have another stepping stone manager who thinks he's doing us a favour. As soon as Moyes/Martinez/Koeman thought they'd proven themselves enough and that we owed them for being here they went down the pan. We need someone who recognises that it is a privilege to manage us and that they have to strive for the best all the time. I genuinely think we need someone from this parish but it could work if the right manager was out there and got taken in by us.

Good post - step up Unsworth.

 

[Zatara]

The thing that worries me the most is how in all of his latest pressers he's said something along the lines of "no, now is not the time to change things (team selection)".

Sorry but just how poor do performances/results have to get before the answer to that question is yes.

"Insanity is repeating the same mistakes and expecting different results"

Insanity is expecting Ronald Koeman to change, learn and adapt.

I did warn everyone...

 

[roydo]

Insanity is expecting Ronald Koeman to change, learn and adapt.

I did warn everyone...

Well done you.

 

[Zatara]

Yet we offered $60M to sign Costa? Come on. And Vermaelen isn't slower than Williams, nor was he the only CB asked for. And stop blaming Koeman for spending money on players, he's the coach, not the D of F and not the board.

I'm bewildered how you seem to believe Klaassen, Cuco, Stekelenburg, Williams would be anyone but Ronalds choices.

He is 1000000000000000000% responsible for these signings.