Ronald Koeman discussion

[rochdaleblue]

Last five games of Martinez as manager, compared to Koeman' s first five matches.

Those opposition touches in opponents box can be put down in part to the duo of Barry and Gana who have broken up so much of the opposition possession this season.

 

[Titus Bramble]

I don't want to go too over the top with praise for Koeman yet, I seem to remember phrases such as 'he's a breath of fresh air', 'his clever substitutions are winning us games' and 'a top club will be in for him at this rate' (or words to the effect) being used in Martinez's first season.

Having said that, the early signs are good. He's improved the main things that were missing the last couple of seasons, ie fitness, defensive organisation and we look good at both defensive and offensive set pieces.

He's as straight talking to the media as you'll find in a manager and he's got the blend of slick passing football when possible, but if in doubt get your laces through it and reorganise. Happy so far

 

[Titus Bramble]

Those opposition touches in opponents box can be put down in part to the duo of Barry and Gana who have broken up so much of the opposition possession this season.

Plus the manager who;s organising them effectively

 

[The binman chronicles]

Yes, that's an even handed approach you have there. Maybe at the end of the season you or 'statto' can give us another breakdown of each of their first seasons.

I liked Martinez (up to the end of his 2nd season) but it's clear to see that he rode on the coat tails of Moyes's defensive organisation and team fitness levels in that 1st year. Obviously Martinez's different and more upbeat character gave the team a big boost so he deserves credit for that. I think under Moyes we would not have done so well that year.

I would say a much fairer comparison would be their 2nd seasons. (if Koeman is still here but I expect him to be) Comparisons cannot be made against first seasons as Martinez took over a team that finished 6th the season before and took them 1 place higher with 9 more points, unless you are willing to accept Koeman would have had a better 1st season if we finish 10th or lower with a tally of greater than 56 points??

 

[ianefc]

 

[davek]

I liked Martinez (up to the end of his 2nd season) but it's clear to see that he rode on the coat tails of Moyes's defensive organisation and team fitness levels in that 1st year. Obviously Martinez's different and more upbeat character gave the team a big boost so he deserves credit for that. I think under Moyes we would not have done so well that year.

I would say a much fairer comparison would be their 2nd seasons. (if Koeman is still here but I expect him to be) Comparisons cannot be made against first seasons as Martinez took over a team that finished 6th the season before and took them 1 place higher with 9 more points, unless you are willing to accept Koeman would have had a better 1st season if we finish 10th or lower with a tally of greater than 56 points??

That's a fair post. But I think you have to look at Martinez's season as discontinuation not continuation with a 'successful' team. He came in and reconstructed the way the whole team played, so what went before under Moyes isn't even an issue in terms of measuring the achievement. Same goes too, btw, for Koeman now.

 

[orly]

I don't want to go too over the top with praise for Koeman yet, I seem to remember phrases such as 'he's a breath of fresh air', 'his clever substitutions are winning us games' and 'a top club will be in for him at this rate' (or words to the effect) being used in Martinez's first season.

Having said that, the early signs are good. He's improved the main things that were missing the last couple of seasons, ie fitness, defensive organisation and we look good at both defensive and offensive set pieces.

He's as straight talking to the media as you'll find in a manager and he's got the blend of slick passing football when possible, but if in doubt get your laces through it and reorganise. Happy so far

Spot on post this.

We've been here before- didn't Martinez win 7 games in a row? - and ended up in a total mess.

Let's just stay calm until October 15th (especially if we win the next two league games). Then we'll know how good we now are.

 

[BlueToff]

Like many, I don't think the opposition has convinced me about our table position however, how Koeman reacts in game, talks about the team, and has lifted quite a few of the players that were here last season well, that's gotten me excited.

The thing is, there's no easy game in this league.

Yes, we should have beaten all of the sides that we did, but that doesn't make the feat of doing so any less notable.

 

[ianefc]

I don't want to go too over the top with praise for Koeman yet, I seem to remember phrases such as 'he's a breath of fresh air', 'his clever substitutions are winning us games' and 'a top club will be in for him at this rate' (or words to the effect) being used in Martinez's first season.

Having said that, the early signs are good. He's improved the main things that were missing the last couple of seasons, ie fitness, defensive organisation and we look good at both defensive and offensive set pieces.

He's as straight talking to the media as you'll find in a manager and he's got the blend of slick passing football when possible, but if in doubt get your laces through it and reorganise. Happy so far

See where you're coming from, but unfortunately in Martinez' case we all saw where he came from, his woeful defensive record and the fact he'd just relegated a Wigan team that Steve Bruce and Paul Jewell couldn't.

Yet... Koeman came from improving, on the excellent Poccetinho, despite losing almost a entire starting 11 over the course of 2 Windows.

This guy is the real deal.

 

[BlueToff]

That's a fair post. But I think you have to look at Martinez's season as discontinuation not continuation with a 'successful' team. He came in and reconstructed the way the whole team played, so what went before under Moyes isn't even an issue in terms of measuring the achievement. Same goes too, btw, for Koeman now.

He had solid foundations though in terms of a defence that didn't concede loads.

Luckily, Koeman seems to have managed to turn the defence around pretty quickly, though there are (and will be) still a few issues.

 

[Titus Bramble]

See where you're coming from, but unfortunately in Martinez' case we all saw where he came from, his woeful defensive record and the fact he'd just relegated a Wigan team that Steve Bruce and Paul Jewell couldn't.

Yet... Koeman came from improving, on the excellent Poccetinho, despite losing almost a entire starting 11 over the course of 2 Windows.

This guy is the real deal.

True, but I think his first season suckered a lot us in, me included, and I saw him as the real deal too.

Cautiously optimistic as it stands

 

[Brennan]

I'm not sure why people are focussing on the City game. You don't judge your standing in the league off the back of one game away from home against a team who look like they are going to destroy everybody this season.

If we want top 4 those matches are really the less important ones.

 

[RFUS]

That's a fair post. But I think you have to look at Martinez's season as discontinuation not continuation with a 'successful' team. He came in and reconstructed the way the whole team played, so what went before under Moyes isn't even an issue in terms of measuring the achievement. Same goes too, btw, for Koeman now.

Right and wrong, that. Yes it's true, but it was a gradual process, and almost everyone agrees now (with hindsight) that the reason we did so well 1st season was that he'd instilled his attacking ideas into the team without our defenders losing what they'd learnt from Moyes.

If he'd inherited a defence that was all over the place, like the one he left, I personally do not think he'd have done nearly as well.

 

[ianefc]

Spot on post this.

We've been here before- didn't Martinez win 7 games in a row? - and ended up in a total mess.

Let's just stay calm until October 15th (especially if we win the next two league games). Then we'll know how good we now are.

I'm not seeing the same lack of calm you keep referring to, to 6 is realistic target at the moment, nothing more, that's fair and level headed I think.

 

[orly]

I'm not seeing the same lack of calm you keep referring to, to 6 is realistic target at the moment, nothing more, that's fair and level headed I think.

Mate someone has started a 'City game is the title decider' thread ffs