Ronald Koeman discussion

[davek]

Agreed. Like in any walk of life, you are only as good as your last job. If he does have grandiose ambitions, then he will want to make a good impression here and not sit around waiting like some privileged kid awaiting his entitlement. In other words, if Everton is his stepping stone, then he had better make sure it doesn't sink.

Exactly.

If he gets the Barcelona job after us then it'll mean he's done something of note so I hope he does get it.

But some need to get up off their knees and stop making it sound like Koeman is doing us a favour. He most definitely isn't that class and he nees to prove he is.

 

[MikeH72]

Honestly, I think you're getting ahead of yourself with your claims for Koeman. His managerial career thus far is not all that. He's yet to demonstrate he can match what Martinez did here and you seem to be emphatic on the strength of 5 PL games that he's undoubtedly a cut above that and rubbing shoulders with SAF!! Let's just wait and see how he fares over a season for a kick off.

Martinez achieved absolutely nothing here so him and Koeman are about equal in that respect mate.

 

[roydo]

Martinez achieved absolutely nothing here so him and Koeman are about equal at the minute in that respect mate.

Oh Christ, here we go.

 

[davek]

You seem to be desperate to dig him out after 5 games, when you were celebrating 0-0 draws away at Cardiff under Martinez.

No consistency in your approach at all. Embarrassing.

As said a few times mate - you telling me I'm undermining this manger is beyond belief with your record. It's embarrassing

Why dont you be quiet about it and crack on with the debate instead? Just a thought. And I'm sure others dont want to see you following me about trying to get a rise from me...and me responding (like this). So for the good of the forum....?

 

[Khalekan]

You get into Europe by winning domestic cups too.

In a European-less season the domestic cups can be managed quite comfortably.

If there's ever anything designed to get on Evertonian's nerves than not taking our two chances of success per season seriously I dont know what it is. Every season we have to go full pelt in these and give it everything.

What's that now since we last won a cup - 23 attempts at winning either of them and making a final and three SFs?

Pathetic for a club of this size.

To be honest, I don't think last night was owt to do with not taking the game seriously or playing a weakened team.

That was a recognisable Everton team out there, all of whom but Valencia have figured at some time already this season and seven or eight of whom could well start on Saturday, especially if Lukaku is still injured.

They just weren't good enough to beat a Norwich second string.

And this is worrying because up until the goal woke us up on Saturday I thought Biro were at least the match of us.

The Sunderland first half was wretched.

It is great we are up there at the right end of the table and all but last night brought it home to me that our results have been better than our performances

 

[MikeH72]

Oh Christ, here we go.

Already started by the looks of it mate

 

[davek]

I agree with you, our cup runs have been pathetic for years, and they've been made worse by us cacking ourselves in every game at Wembley apart for the United semi since 95. We should all be desperate to win something.

I'm just saying that if this is the long term project that some say, and we won't know for some time yet, then the league this season will definitely be the priority for everyone at the club. Getting into the Europa by winning the league cup and finishing 11th won't attract the same calibre of players as finishing 5th and looking like you can challenge for top 4 the next season. Sad but true.

...I'd swerve all the talk of off field 'game changers' and 'new dawns'. I'll treat it as bollocks until I'm proven wrong: the best policy to adopt with this club and its various owners' tall stories.

We should bust a gut to put a trophy in the cabinet every season and prioritise that, imo.

I dont know, maybe that's old fashioned now in this era. But personally I could give a flying one about the sooper dooper soaraway Sky arse licking Premier League.

 

[davek]

To be honest, I don't think last night was owt to do with not taking the game seriously or playing a weakened team.

That was a recognisable Everton team out there, all of whom but Valencia have figured at some time already this season and seven or eight of whom could well start on Saturday, especially if Lukaku is still injured.

They just weren't good enough to beat a Norwich second string.

And this is worrying because up until the goal woke us up on Saturday I thought Biro were at least the match of us.

The Sunderland first half was wretched.

It is great we are up there at the right end of the table and all but last night brought it home to me that our results have been better than our performances

Weren't good enough or weren't motivated enough is the big question here.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Honestly, I think you're getting ahead of yourself with your claims for Koeman. His managerial career thus far is not all that. He's yet to demonstrate he can match what Martinez did here and you seem to be emphatic on the strength of 5 PL games that he's undoubtedly a cut above that and rubbing shoulders with SAF!! Let's just wait and see how he fares over a season for a kick off.

That's a relief, as the day he matches what that fella delivered he'll have Moshiri's hand stitched designer shoe wedged up his crevice.

 

[davek]

I personally think we should go for everything.....I have said countless times silverware is what we need.

My optimism over 5th is more born out of us at some point challenging the top 4, if we can do that we are making progress. The downside is this Prem is getting harder and harder, even with Moshri's money we still fall behind 5 or 6 clubs. I think if we can get EL football it will be a good starting point, but guess we have blown one chance..

Imo, we are miles off top four. I think we all know deep down (notwithstanding the Leicester freak season) to break into that cartel you need billions poured into the playing side and that isn't going to happen.

The eggs seem to be in the stadium basket and we'll be looking to make top 6 at best until that's sorted and attracting cash and generating income.

This isn't happening over night. There will be no quick leap into the elite for us.

 

[blueblue]

Honestly, I think you're getting ahead of yourself with your claims for Koeman. His managerial career thus far is not all that. He's yet to demonstrate he can match what Martinez did here and you seem to be emphatic on the strength of 5 PL games that he's undoubtedly a cut above that and rubbing shoulders with SAF!! Let's just wait and see how he fares over a season for a kick off.

Fair comment. It is early days.
But my comment was more about the way he is going about managing the club. He inspires a confidence in supporters and I think players as well, I think that is mixed with a healthy dose of fear from the players as well.

I think Roberto Martinez was a strange affair. I think his success in his first reason was at least in part due to the team and the organisation that David Moyes left behind. There was so much good in the way he managed the club(not least the academy) but it does seem that he refused to grasp that if some of the most basic parts of the game are not right then you are not going to succeed.
You have to be able to defend, even Barcelona are good at defending, there seems to be issues arising relating to fitness, professionalism about the club...all basics.
He certainly is young enough to learn from his mistakes , but will he.

Koeman is similar, he certainly made mistakes in the past and will make more.
I expect to see some poor results during the season, otherwise we are a shoo in for a top four spot if we keep going as we are......we won't.
He does seem to have learned from earlier mistakes however, he does appear at least to be getting the basics right and he seems to be firmly in control.

 

[ianefc]

As said a few times mate - you telling me I'm undermining this manger is beyond belief with your record. It's embarrassing

Why dont you be quiet about it and crack on with the debate instead? Just a thought. And I'm sure others dont want to see you following me about trying to get a rise from me...and me responding (like this). So for the good of the forum....?

Behave, if anyone was chatting the nonsense you are then I'd be calling them, you're pretty much the only one, which is great for the forum, but ultimately it means you're gonna get a lot of quotes.

The debate is continuing, you said any Everton manager gets a year of your support, yet you've done nothing but take digs at Koeman, that makes no sense to me. If you don't like Koeman the just say it, much like I did with Martinez.

I think it's unfair that you're constantly calling me out on Martinez, I made it clear as day that I didn't fancy him, thought he was gonna be a flop and more than likely set us back years. I said that and stick to it, you're not being consistent.

That's why, don't play the victim mate, it's quite unbecoming, I'm not arsed wether you respond or not, no rise needed, this isn't about me and you. It's about me proving you're being inconsistent. Which isn't hard.

So much support for Martinez, yet Koeman gives us our best start in 3 generations and all I've seen is a constant stream of digs. Poor form. Make no mistake, if Martinez had given us this start, you'd be playing it on auto repeat.

 

[Khalekan]

Weren't good enough or weren't motivated enough is the big question here.

They shouldn't need motivating to go out and beat the reserve team of a Championship team if you ask me.

Professional pride should kick in.

 

[ToffeeTim]

To be honest, I don't think last night was owt to do with not taking the game seriously or playing a weakened team.

That was a recognisable Everton team out there, all of whom but Valencia have figured at some time already this season and seven or eight of whom could well start on Saturday, especially if Lukaku is still injured.

They just weren't good enough to beat a Norwich second string.

And this is worrying because up until the goal woke us up on Saturday I thought Biro were at least the match of us.

The Sunderland first half was wretched.

It is great we are up there at the right end of the table and all but last night brought it home to me that our results have been better than our performances

Our chances of winning football matches increase exponentially when lukaku is our front man.

 

[davek]

Fair comment. It is early days.
But my comment was more about the way he is going about managing the club. He inspires a confidence in supporters and I think players as well, I think that is mixed with a healthy dose of fear from the players as well.

I think Roberto Martinez was a strange affair. I think his success in his first reason was at least in part due to the team and the organisation that David Moyes left behind. There was so much good in the way he managed the club(not least the academy) but it does seem that he refused to grasp that if some of the most basic parts of the game are not right then you are not going to succeed.
You have to be able to defend, even Barcelona are good at defending, there seems to be issues arising relating to fitness, professionalism about the club...all basics.
He certainly is young enough to learn from his mistakes , but will he.

Koeman is similar, he certainly made mistakes in the past and will make more.
I expect to see some poor results during the season, otherwise we are a shoo in for a top four spot if we keep going as we are......we won't.
He does seem to have learned from earlier mistakes however, he does appear at least to be getting the basics right and he seems to be firmly in control.

Koeman has had a very long career in management. It's been a mixed bag to be kind to him. He's not the new young whizz kid come along to show football where it's going wrong.

It's all our hope that he finds his home here at Everton and that he's a good fit for us and us for him and he manages to get his nose out in front of the best performances we've had in the past couple of decades. If he does that then job done. My point is that he's going to have to produce big time here to do that - bigger than he's done elsewhere.