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Ronald Koeman discussion

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davek said:
The thing I dont buy so far about Koeman the Pragmatist (and I say this as someone who fully recognises it's very early days and the manager shouldn't be judged on anything until he has a season and a couple of windows under his belt) is the fact that most pragmatic managers tend to assess what they've inherited and adapt to it. They retain good points - whatever is salvageable and works - and they identify what went wrong and work on it. I terms of the latter I do think he's addressing this...but maybe over-egging the pudding: I think what we're seeing here so far on the defensive improvement is down to sheer numbers behind the ball rather than a back four whipped into shape, which is what I expected his coaching to do...and the purchase of Williams). In terms of the former, though, I dont see how he's retaining our attacking prowess (something that has a relationship with the earlier point about committing a lot of bodies behind the ball). It's clear he's compromising up front by using Lukaku as he was used under Martinez, by servicing him as an out and out goalscorer. But the whole attacking unit under Martinez has been undermined by his insistence on releasing the ball quickly out of the back and by-passing the midfield (one of the reasons Barkley is looking increasingly like a spare arse part). Koeman talks a lot about striking a balance between retaining the ball and constructing moves out the back and knowing when to release it forward more directly. There's no way that is happening right now. We err toward a more direct style of forward play. Now, maybe that has to do with this lot of ex'Moyes players at the back who dont need much excuse to fall into old ways and launch it early and long. But whatever it is I sincerely hope the style we currently adopt evolves to something less basic.
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I generally agree, but I think you're over-stating how "agricultural" our attacking play has been.
 
toffeeblue9 said:
I generally agree, but I think you're over-stating how "agricultural" our attacking play has been.
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It's not so much agricultural but predictable and lacking in any real construction. Largely it's been a case of scooping it toward Bolasie and him carrying the ball...and when that is closed down...switch him to the other wing and do it from there!

I dont think there's any need for that, tbh, early doors or not. And I dont think it reflects well on the manager who's intimated that it'll take a long time to change things. I accept that doing things 100% his way is something that requires time and cash, but I dont accept that basic passing and movement when you have the ball should be relegated to somewhere way below working hard off the ball and behind it.
 
davek said:
It's not so much agricultural but predictable and lacking in any real construction. Largely it's been a case of scooping it toward Bolasie and him carrying the ball...and when that is closed down...switch him to the other wing and do it from there!

I dont think there's any need for that, tbh, early doors or not. And I dont think it reflects well on the manager who's intimated that it'll take a long time to change things. I accept that doing things 100% his way is something that requires time and cash, but I dont accept that basic passing and movement when you have the ball should be relegated to somewhere way below working hard off the ball and behind it.
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Have you seen his presser today Dave?

Says he expects more from all the attacking players.
 
BlueToff said:
Have you seen his presser today Dave?

Says he expects more from all the attacking players.
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Yeah, more closing down and getting behind the ball. Nothing wrong with that (although asking Deulofeu, Mirallas and Lukaku to do that is like trying to plait sawdust - it's just not a sensible pastime).
 
davek said:
Yeah, more closing down and getting behind the ball. Nothing wrong with that (although asking Deulofeu, Mirallas and Lukaku to do that is like trying to plait sawdust - it's just not a sensible pastime).
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He said he expects more productivity in terms of scoring goals...
 

TrixyStevens said:
A lot of changes in a short space of time, for the better. Now it's about getting the best out of Barkley, Mirallas and Deulofeu who have been woeful IMO. Bolasie has shown bits and pieces but nothing spectacular. We need a better level of creative attacking players if the target is Europe this season.
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In the last month or so, yes.

Sunderland was the last time that Mirallas or Del played well. Barkley has shown flashes but really needs to kick-on again now.
 

BlueToff said:
In the last month or so, yes.

Sunderland was the last time that Mirallas or Del played well. Barkley has shown flashes but really needs to kick-on again now.
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As Koeman said earlier he has no longer a talent. 3 full seasons of football under his belt. Time to separate the boy from the man.
 

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