Ronald Koeman discussion

[tommye]

It's an achievement, and of course I'd celebrate us becoming champions. But it'd be a title that wouldn't be fit to sit beside the 80s titles (or the Catterick ones as far as I can gather).

Jesus. You OK lad?

 

[DualityNSNO]

It's an achievement, and of course I'd celebrate us becoming champions. But it'd be a title that wouldn't be fit to sit beside the 80s titles (or the Catterick ones as far as I can gather).

Alright Dave?

 

[balggy]

Yes, but my point is that it's a team defending not just a back four. That then limits us as a forward force because he cant get them to a consistently good level of transitioning from defence to attack.

We'll see if he gets the players required to do that. But until then it's perfectly legitimate to acknowledge a good points haul whilst stating the way we play is a bit of a midden at the moment.

It was a problem Martinez couldn't overcome.

Martinez could set Everton up to defend and keep a clean sheet. But when he did we were absolutely toothless in attack.

It all started in August 2014. In our first three matches of that season, we drew 2-2 with Leicester, through away a two goal lead and drew 2-2 with Arsenal and lost 6-3 at Goodison to Chelsea. After conceding 10 in his first three matches we didn't commit as much going forward, went back to basics.

It was a problem he suffered with for the next two years and would result in his sacking.

We could attack and cause problems for anyone but would be shocking at the back because we were comitting too many men going forward. When we set up to defend, lukaku would look isolated because we didn't commit players.

You don't want us to defend as a team but you would probably love us to attack as a team.

It was great when Oviedo scored the winner against Utd and Coleman was in the box as well. So attack minded.

But unfortunately Martinez got found out.

Koeman has the task of finding a way of attacking that doesn't leave us massively vilnerable at the back.

It's early days but I have total confidence in him.

Two nil up against West Ham the attack minded Martinez brought on Niasse despite us being down to ten men.

In the same fixture Koeman brings on jagielka and we retain our 2-0 lead.

I know which I prefer.

 

[jinkyali]

It was a problem Martinez couldn't overcome.

Martinez could set Everton up to defend and keep a clean sheet. But when he did we were absolutely toothless in attack.

It all started in August 2014. In our first three matches of that season, we drew 2-2 with Leicester, through away a two goal lead and drew 2-2 with Arsenal and lost 6-3 at Goodison to Chelsea. After conceding 10 in his first three matches we didn't commit as much going forward, went back to basics.

It was a problem he suffered with for the next two years and would result in his sacking.

We could attack and cause problems for anyone but would be shocking at the back because we were comitting too many men going forward. When we set up to defend, lukaku would look isolated because we didn't commit players.

You don't want us to defend as a team but you would probably love us to attack as a team.

It was great when Oviedo scored the winner against Utd and Coleman was in the box as well. So attack minded.

But unfortunately Martinez got found out.

Koeman has the task of finding a way of attacking that doesn't leave us massively vilnerable at the back.

It's early days but I have total confidence in him.

Two nil up against West Ham the attack minded Martinez brought on Niasse despite us being down to ten men.

In the same fixture Koeman brings on jagielka and we retain our 2-0 lead.

I know which I prefer.

Koeman actually getting criticised by Dave for defending as a team and solving a long standing issue.

 

[Woolly Blue]

It's an entertainment industry

I hate this phrase in relation to our club and football in general. Rupert Murdoch and SkyTV would doubtless agree with this sentiment, but, to most Evertonians, it's much more than entertainment.

I would rather see us win with style than without, but I'd also rather see us win none too stylishly rather than draw elegantly.

The whole "entertainment" thing is what you here from the type of supporter who's bought into the whole Sky roadshow.

*gets down off soapbox.

 

[riddick]

It was a problem Martinez couldn't overcome.

Martinez could set Everton up to defend and keep a clean sheet. But when he did we were absolutely toothless in attack.

It all started in August 2014. In our first three matches of that season, we drew 2-2 with Leicester, through away a two goal lead and drew 2-2 with Arsenal and lost 6-3 at Goodison to Chelsea. After conceding 10 in his first three matches we didn't commit as much going forward, went back to basics.

It was a problem he suffered with for the next two years and would result in his sacking.

"funny" thing is that I would attribute a big chunk of the beginning of 2014 to his absolute dereliction of a pre-season. It was beyond horrific, those who questioned were hit with the usual "he's a Premier League manager, he knows more than you" and then we started the season as such. Both Leicester and Arsenal we would have won if we had more than 2 players who weren't out on their feet after 55 minutes.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

It's not about places for me. I've always said it makes no difference to me if we're 5th or 15th. It get's you nothing worth having.

It's all about winning matches in some style. We did that over a season for the first time since the 80s the season RM took over. It hasn;t been seen since, but that's no reason not to demand it.

I dont see that now either. It's a good start (although defeat next week will make it pretty much average - we're still at that point) but the play is for the most part gruesome to watch. Yes, we did well in patches today and against Sunderland second half; but all told it's not a football method we should subscribe to.

Trust me it matters if you attend home games for an entire season and only leave on 4 occasions having seen a victory

Saying there's no difference between 5th and 15th is therefore absolute cobblers

Football is about winning, winning with style is a bonus.

Btw we were great second half today, and beat a side full of confidence after having downed Chelsea midweek.

Your eulogising about some mythical Harlem Globe trotters style football under Martinez is an absolute joke. Most weeks it was total durge at home for nearly 2 years. Nervous defending, a complete inability to defend a lead due to his suicidal tactics and a total lack of game management. His tippy tappy football was for the most part as dull as dishwater to watch. Possession without an end product, to me to you, to the keeper, back to the CB to the keeper, hoof.

Calling what Koeman has put together in 10 league games 'gruesome' to watch is completely ridiculous.

 

[davek]

It was a problem Martinez couldn't overcome.

Martinez could set Everton up to defend and keep a clean sheet. But when he did we were absolutely toothless in attack.

It all started in August 2014. In our first three matches of that season, we drew 2-2 with Leicester, through away a two goal lead and drew 2-2 with Arsenal and lost 6-3 at Goodison to Chelsea. After conceding 10 in his first three matches we didn't commit as much going forward, went back to basics.

It was a problem he suffered with for the next two years and would result in his sacking.

We could attack and cause problems for anyone but would be shocking at the back because we were comitting too many men going forward. When we set up to defend, lukaku would look isolated because we didn't commit players.

You don't want us to defend as a team but you would probably love us to attack as a team.

It was great when Oviedo scored the winner against Utd and Coleman was in the box as well. So attack minded.

But unfortunately Martinez got found out.

Koeman has the task of finding a way of attacking that doesn't leave us massively vilnerable at the back.

It's early days but I have total confidence in him.

Two nil up against West Ham the attack minded Martinez brought on Niasse despite us being down to ten men.

In the same fixture Koeman brings on jagielka and we retain our 2-0 lead.

I know which I prefer.

I'm glad you brought up this corresponding fixture from last season. That friggin balloon Mirallas was sent off in the first half and we still went two up and played WHU off the park. Yes, the collapse happened. But the point is that even with 10 men we played more attacking football against a much better WHU than the one we faced today.

There really is NO EXCUSE for not getting out there at home and thoroughly dominating opposition like that. We didn't today and rode our luck until HT. if they'd have scored first I think we'd be looking at 6 games in a row without a win now.

This manager is too cautious.

 

[maccavennie]

I'm glad you brought up this corresponding fixture from last season. That friggin balloon Mirallas was sent off in the first half and we still went two up and played WHU off the park. Yes, the collapse happened. But the point is that even with 10 men we played more attacking football against a much better WHI than the one we faced today.

There really is NO EXCUSE for not getting out there at home and thoroughly dominating opposition like that. We didn't today and rode our luck until HT. if they'd have scored first I think we'd be looking at 6 games in a row without a win now.

This manager is too cautious.

2 years of absolutely abysmal home form Dave. I think 99.9% of fans at this moment in time will take a few hard earned wins.

Just in case you forgot, we were abysmal last season at home, absolutely abysmal bar the odd half here and there. 4 league wins at home, worst points return from home games. Abysmal. So trust me, there really is AN EXCUSE for not playing teams off the park, it's called being sensible, disciplined and even if we are playing crap, stay in the game and take your chances when they come along.

 

[tommye]

I hate this phrase in relation to our club and football in general. Rupert Murdoch and SkyTV would doubtless agree with this sentiment, but, to most Evertonians, it's much more than entertainment.

I would rather see us win with style than without, but I'd also rather see us win none too stylishly rather than draw elegantly.

The whole "entertainment" thing is what you *here* from the type of supporter who's bought into the whole Sky roadshow.

*gets down off soapbox.

*hear*

 

[davek]

I hate this phrase in relation to our club and football in general. Rupert Murdoch and SkyTV would doubtless agree with this sentiment, but, to most Evertonians, it's much more than entertainment.

I would rather see us win with style than without, but I'd also rather see us win none too stylishly rather than draw elegantly.

The whole "entertainment" thing is what you here from the type of supporter who's bought into the whole Sky roadshow.

*gets down off soapbox.

No no no no no!

It really isn't a Murdoch era nu fan thing at all. You're kidding yourself. Football has always been an entertainment as well as a tribal thing. If that wasn't so there'd be no professional football at all and people would gravitate toward local amateur teams.

I mean, what's the attraction in seeing people who can only do as much as you yourself can do on the ball? We don't look for that, we look for people at the top of their game performing individually and as part of a team in a way that's way beyond our capabilities. In short, we look to be entertained. This is as old as the game itself. Working class people paying to see their own form of ballet. Don't sell that historical fact short as some sort of Sky era nonsense. You do it an injustice.

 

[davek]

Trust me it matters if you attend home games for an entire season and only leave on 4 occasions having seen a victory

Saying there's no difference between 5th and 15th is therefore absolute cobblers

Football is about winning, winning with style is a bonus.

Btw we were great second half today, and beat a side full of confidence after having downed Chelsea midweek.

Your eulogising about some mythical Harlem Globe trotters style football under Martinez is an absolute joke. Most weeks it was total durge at home for nearly 2 years. Nervous defending, a complete inability to defend a lead due to his suicidal tactics and a total lack of game management. His tippy tappy football was for the most part as dull as dishwater to watch. Possession without an end product, to me to you, to the keeper, back to the CB to the keeper, hoof.

Calling what Koeman has put together in 10 league games 'gruesome' to watch is completely ridiculous.

It's not a bonus, it's a duty for professional footballers to entertain. They get paid millions not to play dullard stuff but to get people off their seats.

Koeman Has proven himself thus far to be uncreative as an attacking minded manager. He's placed all his eggs in the reduction of goals against basket and we have seen little in the way of free flowing football. Say all you want about Martinez, but his first season record is there for all time and it shows exactly what you can do in this league if you're bold enough.

 

[dannyboy]

I like how ruthless he's been in terms of dropping under performing players. There's definitely a sense that he's in control of that dressing room which I don't think was the case when Martinez was around.

The defence has definitely improved, although today I thought we were an accident waiting to happen in that area.

The biggest positive of all is that we sit 6th in the league. There's obviously flaws to our team at the moment but we've got results so far and I won't be complaining if that continues.

 

[davek]

2 years of absolutely abysmal home form Dave. I think 99.9% of fans at this moment in time will take a few hard earned wins.

Just in case you forgot, we were abysmal last season at home, absolutely abysmal bar the odd half here and there. 4 league wins at home, worst points return from home games. Abysmal. So trust me, there really is AN EXCUSE for not playing teams off the park, it's called being sensible, disciplined and even if we are playing crap, stay in the game and take your chances when they come along.

It's understandable yes, but not acceptable per se.

It s time the excuse of last season was put to bed. This is a new manager so let's see him both work a defensive solution and play good football.

 

[Goat]

All I know is this, when Everton win and play badly, it makes me very happy, when Everton draw and play well, it makes me happy, when Everton lose and play well, it makes me very sad.

Everton to me isnt an Entertainment vehicle, its a way of life.