W
WuTangToffee
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This is fantastic news, we need less players our squad is too big.
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If moyes is still our manager we'll probably sell him within the next two years because he doesn't rate him.
If moyes isn't then we'll still probably do so because he's not a bad judge of a player, in all honesty. But you never know.
If moyes isn't then we'll still probably do so because he's not a bad judge of a player, in all honesty. But you never know.
I don't know about him not being Wilshere's calibre in terms of actual footballing ability, but i don't think he's mentally at the same stage.
Aaron Ramsey is a good example of a young player being f***ed up by injury.
He came into the Arsenal team and looked like a solid player, certainly not out of place. Then that injury happened and he's not been the same since. Barkley's injury was just as bad and he hadn't even played at the top level yet.
He came into the Arsenal team and looked like a solid player, certainly not out of place. Then that injury happened and he's not been the same since. Barkley's injury was just as bad and he hadn't even played at the top level yet.
pfim
Player Valuation: £40m
I mean right now. Talent is one thing, ability another.
Not everyone is on the same learning curve and the curve is certainly not linear. Wilshere being the better player right now doesn't mean he will be in 5 years, it's just not how it works.
Couldn't have wrote anything better than the above to make my point really. He turns 20 at the end of 2013, and he's playing at a club that should afford many more chances than Liverpool (at the time) or United do.
Lampard broke in at 18 but broke his leg which set him back. When he came back from injury he was straight into the first team fold - which brings me on to my next point; Ross's injury was a long time ago and he's had no set back from it, it needs to stop being used as an excuse for his current developmental predicament.
I think Jack Wilshere and to a lesser extent James Milner are two very good points of comparison to Ross Barkley, in terms of style and physique. Both of those two players were playing regularly early on and both have come on leaps and bounds with their careers.
I've never understood the argument that Barkley will develop properly without playing games. That hasn't been the case for any footballer ever but apparently it's different for Ross!
He's played (and shone) at Everton (when given a proper game) and Sheffield Wednesday (when given a proper run), with no side effects from that injury ever and no indication that his development has been stunted.
That myth needs to end. It's as stupid as the "exploding knees" nonsense.
Literally nobody has said that though.
I also don't see how pointing out some players didn't make proper impacts for their team until the season after they turned 20 helps your argument. Using what i just posted it would not be unrealistic to assume that Ross could start playing regularly for us in the 2014/15 season.
Paul Scholes and Gerrard didn't go out on loan anywhere, and they turned out fine. Which sort of shoots a hole in your 'he needs to be playing regularly to be a top player' argument. Neither of them were playing regular first team football until they were 19/20, which is the age bracket Ross has only just entered.
I don't see how you can so quickly discount the effect that losing a year of his development through injury has had either.
So you don't think missing out on a year of football would put him at a disadvantage in terms of where he should be overall ? That if he'd played that extra year of football he'd be no more progressed than he is now ?
Did he shine at Wednesday, though? Did he really?
Or did he only shine in games against Peterborough and Ipswich teams who would struggle in league one and go missing against anyone even slightly good?
Or did he only shine in games against Peterborough and Ipswich teams who would struggle in league one and go missing against anyone even slightly good?
From what i read, he did well but didn't set the world on fire.
There's certainly a lot of hyperbole when it comes to Barkley's performances.
lol no it doesn't. Gerrard was gradually introduced into the side aged 18, playing more and more games and becoming acclimatised to the Premier League - basically a picture perfect way to develop a young football. Scholes was 19 and a year after moving into the first team squad he was playing regularly.
There's the key - moving into the first team. The two examples above we're promoted to the first team set up and given a gradually more influential role. Ross has been in the first team squad for two/three years and not been given a sniff - if anything, he's gone backwards. You don't see that with the elite players we're hoping for him to be.
That, combined with the abysmal track record Moyes has with developing homegrown talent into the first team squad, makes me very concerned that he's being mismanaged.
I'd be stunned if he went on loan to Leeds, came back in the summer and had another year like the last two he's had. He'd be foolish to accept a seat on the bench and 34 minutes of football.
Wednesday fans are gutted to miss out on him. Which is the best indication that he did well I can find.
How many minutes did Scholes and Gerrard play for the first team respectively before they turned 20 ? I want hard numbers.
Oh, and about Gerrard:
Yep, defo the best way to develop youth.
Gerrard's first proper season with Liverpool started when he was 19 years and 2 months old, and then he proceeded to get sent off and suffer injury problems. He also never suffered a double leg break prior to coming into the team.
Barkley is not far behind Gerrard in terms of development at all. In fact Barkley has probably already played more first team football than Gerrard had at this stage of his career.
billycopper
Player Valuation: £40m
Maybe a better comparison would be Chelsea's Josh McEachran. They're the same age and have similar appearance records. A full season in the Championship with Middlesborough is bound to do him the world of good. It looks like Moyes was hoping to use Ross more often but, for whatever reason, he hasn't been able to. If I was Barkley I would want to remain at Leeds for the remainder of the season with an option to recall if we have a bad run of injuries rather than not knowing what's happening from month to month.
Christiffa25
Player Valuation: £35m
Tbf it's a bit hard to shine playing in a ****e team against good teams. In a ****e team against other ****e teams you will shine as he did.
Possibly. But there's no evidence of that. I remember when Leon Osman came back from a really serious injury when he started out - so much so that he was 23/24 before he broke into our set up - and he really did need the slow intro back into the first team. I remember the first few reports from his loan spells and I kept expecting to hear that he'd been released.
But Barkley is showing none of that, we're hearing nothing from "behind the scenes" suggesting that he's in serious trouble with his legs, no physical problems, no recurring injuries, he's playing 90 minutes without issues when he's asked to etc. So I think it's a complete myth to use his old injury to justify sitting him on the bench and giving him 10 minute cameos every three months.
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