Ross Barkley

[Allezfan]

Wednesday fans are gutted to miss out on him. Which is the best indication that he did well I can find.

It's the best indication that he's a better player then the person who's replaced him at wednesday yes.

I don't think the list of players good enough to start in Sheffield Wednesday's midfield and improve it is particuarly short, like but I certainly agree that Barkley belongs in it.

 

[Brennan]

Wednesday fans are gutted to miss out on him. Which is the best indication that he did well I can find.

A large majority of Wednesday fans also branded him as s**t.

 

[paulbefc]

The staff at Everton (and probably Ross himself) are all wrong and Tubey from GOT is right. I remember when Osman went on loan to the championship in his 20s, what ever happened to him, right?

 

[Allezfan]

Tbf it's a bit hard to shine playing in a ****e team against good teams. In a ****e team against other ****e teams you will shine as he did.

It is, yes. You have to be an outstanding player to do so.

 

[Tubey]

So Gerrard didn't develop into a top player then??? 'kin hell if that's a bad example of developing a footballer I'd love to see a good one!

 

[Steven Naismith]

Can't be arsed with people either writing the lad off already or claiming he's going to be a world beater.
We all hope that he will be class and Moyes is the man who will be trying to make him into what it's been talked about.
Let him get on with his football and hope he has a really good spell at Leeds, whatever happens happens wish people would just stop getting all panicky and that about him really.

And ffs I hope he doesn't come on here and read this thread!

 

[Brennan]

Possibly. But there's no evidence of that. I remember when Leon Osman came back from a really serious injury when he started out - so much so that he was 23/24 before he broke into our set up - and he really did need the slow intro back into the first team. I remember the first few reports from his loan spells and I kept expecting to hear that he'd been released.

But Barkley is showing none of that, we're hearing nothing from "behind the scenes" suggesting that he's in serious trouble with his legs, no physical problems, no recurring injuries, he's playing 90 minutes without issues when he's asked to etc. So I think it's a complete myth to use his old injury to justify sitting him on the bench and giving him 10 minute cameos every three months.

I'm not saying his injury is causing him actual playing problems. What i'm saying is that missing out on an entire year of football would mean you would miss a year's worth of football.

If you miss a year of footie then you're going to be less progressed than you would have been if you had never been injured. He's practically played a year less football than you'd by hope by this stage.

 

[Arsene]

I mean right now. Talent is one thing, ability another.

Not everyone is on the same learning curve and the curve is certainly not linear. Wilshere being the better player right now doesn't mean he will be in 5 years, it's just not how it works.

Wilshere has world class ball control. Even though English players usually gets too much hype, Wilshere is a fantastic talent. Its funny reading this debate because it reminds me of the endless debate we used to have about Wilshere on arsenal forums. 2009/10 season Wenger was accused by alot of fans he was holding Wilshere back, thats before he went on loan to Bolton. He was 17 and for months alot of fans wanted him to play for the first team. In fact since he was 16 there has been people calling Wenger too conservative and wanted Jack in the first team. to be fair to Jack when he was 16 he stood out pretty much every single game in the reserves and Wenger kept saying since he was 16 he was ready ability wise, just not ready physically. ramsey got into the first team before Wilshere and Wilshere when turned 18 went to loan to Bolton. But he forced Wengers hand by having a fantastic pre season when he was 18 and outshone Song and Fabregas every game.

Barkley looks to be a very promising player, but 1 thing Wilshere always had was a fantastic calmness and mature game. When he was playing for the first team at 18, you would never guess he was a youngster. The game against Chelsea Barkley really showed his age by trying to do something every time instead of keeping the ball moving and making a mature decision. Maybe he wanted to prove a point too much, but the fact that he's actually thinking like that shows he's still not ready in terms of maturity

 

[pfim]

I'm not sure using fans' opinions on players really strengthens anyone's argument. No one goes around here saying "hey, pfim thinks he's great, so you don't know what you're talking about."

 

[Brennan]

So Gerrard didn't develop into a top player then??? 'kin hell if that's a bad example of developing a footballer I'd love to see a good one!

Who said he didn't develop into a top player ?

Playing too much and too early messed with his development, to the extent that he was out injured for a noticeable period of time.

 

[Allezfan]

The staff at Everton (and probably Ross himself) are all wrong and Tubey from GOT is right. I remember when Osman went on loan to the championship in his 20s, what ever happened to him, right?

I remember when we loaned out Branch, Fox, Baxter, Akpan, Ruddy, Jukebox, Vaughan, etc too. And all of those are now cemented nicely in our first team.

 

[Tubey]

The staff at Everton (and probably Ross himself) are all wrong and Tubey from GOT is right. I remember when Osman went on loan to the championship in his 20s, what ever happened to him, right?

See post above re: Osman.

I'm not saying I'm definitely right about Barkley, I'm just explaining why I have concerns about his development and why I wouldn't be surprised if he sought a move if not given proper time in the first team when he gets back from Leeds.

After all, it wouldn't be the first time a bright prospect has failed under Moyes. At some stage, questions must be asked as to why very few players are making the jump from prospects to first team players under Moyes from our much heralded youth system.

 

[Brennan]

Wilshere has world class ball control. Even though English players usually gets too much hype, Wilshere is a fantastic talent. Its funny reading this debate because it reminds me of the endless debate we used to have about Wilshere on arsenal forums. 2009/10 season Wenger was accused by alot of fans he was holding Wilshere back, thats before he went on loan to Bolton. He was 17 and for months alot of fans wanted him to play for the first team. In fact since he was 16 there has been people calling Wenger too conservative and wanted Jack in the first team. to be fair to Jack when he was 16 he stood out pretty much every single game in the reserves and Wenger kept saying since he was 16 he was ready ability wise, just not ready physically. ramsey got into the first team before Wilshere and Wilshere when turned 18 went to loan to Bolton. But he forced Wengers hand by having a fantastic pre season when he was 18 and outshone Song and Fabregas every game.

Barkley looks to be a very promising player, but 1 thing Wilshere always had was a fantastic calmness and mature game. When he was playing for the first team at 18, you would never guess he was a youngster. The game against Chelsea Barkley really showed his age by trying to do something every time instead of keeping the ball moving and making a mature decision. Maybe he wanted to prove a point too much, but the fact that he's actually thinking like that shows he's still not ready in terms of maturity

Bullseye.

 

[Allezfan]

Can't be arsed with people either writing the lad off already or claiming he's going to be a world beater.
We all hope that he will be class and Moyes is the man who will be trying to make him into what it's been talked about.
Let him get on with his football and hope he has a really good spell at Leeds, whatever happens happens wish people would just stop getting all panicky and that about him really.

And ffs I hope he doesn't come on here and read this thread!

I think he's good enough to become a regular starter at Everton and I hope he does. To me that is success.

I don't think Moyes thinks that, though since he doesn't seem to rate him but possibly a stonking loan at leeds will change his mind or possibly Moyes will leave and the new manager will take a shine to Ross. We'll see. I have my fingers crossed.

 

[paulbefc]

I remember when we loaned out Branch, Fox, Baxter, Akpan, Ruddy, Jukebox, Vaughan, etc too. And all of those are now cemented nicely in our first team.

God forbid every kid on our books not slot neatly into a premier league team with ease. Especially potheads, critically injury prone players etc.

Everyone out.