Ross Barkley

[Tubey]

Wilshere has world class ball control. Even though English players usually gets too much hype, Wilshere is a fantastic talent. Its funny reading this debate because it reminds me of the endless debate we used to have about Wilshere on arsenal forums. 2009/10 season Wenger was accused by alot of fans he was holding Wilshere back, thats before he went on loan to Bolton. He was 17 and for months alot of fans wanted him to play for the first team. In fact since he was 16 there has been people calling Wenger too conservative and wanted Jack in the first team. to be fair to Jack when he was 16 he stood out pretty much every single game in the reserves and Wenger kept saying since he was 16 he was ready ability wise, just not ready physically. ramsey got into the first team before Wilshere and Wilshere when turned 18 went to loan to Bolton. But he forced Wengers hand by having a fantastic pre season when he was 18 and outshone Song and Fabregas every game.

Barkley looks to be a very promising player, but 1 thing Wilshere always had was a fantastic calmness and mature game. When he was playing for the first team at 18, you would never guess he was a youngster. The game against Chelsea Barkley really showed his age by trying to do something every time instead of keeping the ball moving and making a mature decision. Maybe he wanted to prove a point too much, but the fact that he's actually thinking like that shows he's still not ready in terms of maturity

I'd rather judge him on the 90 minutes of football he played 18 months earlier than the 10 minute cameo he had against the reigning European champions in a game we were chasing in a misshapen formation in his second senior game of the year tbh!

 

[Allezfan]

God forbid not every kid on our books not slot neatly into a premier league team with ease. Especially potheads, critically injury prone players.

Everyone out.

I was just saying. Sometimes you lona a player out to give them experience and when they came back they're in the first team (Osman, Coleman) and sometimes you loan a player out because you don't want them and you're putting them in a shop window (the bunch I listed above).

 

[Brennan]

I think he's good enough to become a regular starter at Everton and I hope he does. To me that is success.

I don't think Moyes thinks that, though since he doesn't seem to rate him but possibly a stonking loan at leeds will change his mind or possibly Moyes will leave and the new manager will take a shine to Ross. We'll see. I have my fingers crossed.

I'm honestly not sure where you get this idea that he doesn't rate him just because he hasn't played loads of games for us mate. The media is the media but he's literally never said anything to suggest he doesn't think he's boss.

 

[paulbefc]

See post above re: Osman.

I'm not saying I'm definitely right about Barkley, I'm just explaining why I have concerns about his development and why I wouldn't be surprised if he sought a move if not given proper time in the first team when he gets back from Leeds.

After all, it wouldn't be the first time a bright prospect has failed under Moyes. At some stage, questions must be asked as to why very few players are making the jump from prospects to first team players under Moyes from our much heralded youth system.

It all seems pretty logical to me. He's not ready to play for us at the moment and is at an age where he needs first team action. There is no evidence to suggest the plan isn't to let him fight for his place properly next season as a full first teamer with a good few months' championship experience under his belt. In fact, hasn't Moyes suggested this will be the case?

 

[Allezfan]

After all, it wouldn't be the first time a bright prospect has failed under Moyes. At some stage, questions must be asked as to why very few players are making the jump from prospects to first team players under Moyes from our much heralded youth system.

Osman, Anichebe, Rodwell and Rooney is it, isn't it?

And Rodwell never really became the player we hoped for, though Vic might just do so. I'm not convinced our coaching for youths is great, tbh. Though not many premier league clubs do much better, I suppose.

 

[Tubey]

It all seems pretty logical to me. He's not ready to play for us at the moment and is at an age where he needs first team action. There is no evidence to suggest the plan isn't to let him fight for his place properly next season as a full first teamer with a good few months' championship experience under his belt. In fact, hasn't Moyes suggested this will be the case?

Which is what I said?

Glad he's got the move. Hopefully it's until the end of the season and then he's given assurances about his role in the first team, otherwise I can easily imagine him making a permanent move.

All I'm saying is that if he isn't moved into the proper first team setup and playing increasing amounts of games at Everton next season then I believe that this time next year he'll be moving on.

 

[Tubey]

Osman, Anichebe, Rodwell and Rooney is it, isn't it?

Yep. And out of them, Osman and Rooney were already very much developed and ready to go.

So pretty much Rodwell and to a lesser extent Anichebe. But even those two didn't become first team fixtures - hopefully Anichebe does but I wouldn't bet on it.

Moyes has an amazing eye in the transfer market but developing youth and giving them a chance is a massive, massive myth. Not that I'm particularly arsed if he keeps buying the likes of Baines, Cahill, Arteta and Fellaini!!!

 

[Arsene]

I'd rather judge him on the 90 minutes of football he played 18 months earlier than the 10 minute cameo he had against the reigning European champions in a game we were chasing in a misshapen formation in his second senior game of the year tbh!

maybe, but those 10 mins he showed his age big time. It wasnt 1 or 2 mispalced passes. it was constant poor decisions and like I said he showed his immaturity there. Also central midfield is the hardest position to trust young players in. Its much easier to be a wide man or striker and make mistakes

 

[Goat]

Yep. And out of them, Osman and Rooney were already very much developed and ready to go.

So pretty much Rodwell and to a lesser extent Anichebe. But even those two didn't become first team fixtures - hopefully Anichebe does but I wouldn't bet on it.

Moyes has an amazing eye in the transfer market but developing youth and giving them a chance is a massive, massive myth. Not that I'm particularly arsed if he keeps buying the likes of Baines, Cahill, Arteta and Fellaini!!!

I agree mate, the Premiership is littered with players Moyes has let go the last 11 Years, FULL OF THEM.

*giggle*

 

[Tubey]

I agree mate, the Premiership is littered with players Moyes has let go the last 11 Years, FULL OF THEM.

*giggle*

That's my point - they weren't developed properly!

 

[Allezfan]

So pretty much Rodwell and to a lesser extent Anichebe. But even those two didn't become first team fixtures - hopefully Anichebe does but I wouldn't bet on it.

Eh, if Ross ends up starting as many games as those do (about 125 between them plus another 125 off the bench) by their ages, I'd be happy enough.

 

[Goat]

That's my point - they weren't developed properly!

You can polish a turd, but it will still be a turd.

 

[Allezfan]

I'm honestly not sure where you get this idea that he doesn't rate him just because he hasn't played loads of games for us mate. The media is the media but he's literally never said anything to suggest he doesn't think he's boss.

If you rate a player you put him on the pitch, mate. He started four games for us last year and none this.

Rodwell by his age had had a bunch of games, because Moyes rated him. So did Rooney. Barkley, I don't see it. I don't think he rates Vellios either.

I like them both and would like to see them both play more but Moyes doesn't and that's got nothing to do with their age.

 

[paulbefc]

Which is what I said?



All I'm saying is that if he isn't moved into the proper first team setup and playing increasing amounts of games at Everton next season then I believe that this time next year he'll be moving on.

I just don't see the need to worry as that is the plan. If he doesn't make it, it won't be for lack of talent, it'll be his strength or concentration etc. Weaknesses in his game you can pick up on in a quick ten minute sub appearance, at present. It won't be because the manager doesn't want to play a talented player because he doesn't like him. As Artetafan said above, he's a good judge of a player so he'll know if he's up to it. He will be though. Almost definitely.

 

[bluejock]

You can polish a turd, but it will still be a turd.

Why would you polish a turd?