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Ross Barkley

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Jxg said:
I read what he said and that's what I was quoting.

Portugal have Ronaldo as a star player. He's just one example. I'm not comparing Ross' abilities to him but rather him as the standout player who can make something happen. England (especially under Hodgeson) don't approve of players who stand out, but rather prefer a standard XI. By the way, Portugal are ranked third in the world. They are a much, much better side than us and have been over the last decade at least.

Barkley does need to improve on decision making, yes, but Woy has gone about saying that the absolute wrong way. He could be worse at man management than Moyes and that's saying something. By completely bushing over the positives from his game (the fact that he was central to literally every attempt on goal for us) and instead saying that Phil Jones and Wilshire are better, it just further suggests that he will be picking his teams based on name rather than ability.
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My issue with this is the fact that he seemed to single him out. I know he was asked questions about Ross's performance but he should have kept his answers a little more neutral, instead if he thinks their is an obsession with Barkley, by doing what he done last night will only make it ten times worse as the media will crucify him if we lose to Italy and Ross doesn't start.

Tournament football for me has a massive emphasis on man management aswell as tactics, more so say than at club level. Players are away from home, only have the squad and manager to interact with. If Roy starts singling players out like last night, any comaraderie built up will soon be knocked down again and it will be South Africa all over again.
 
Lads, you know what we are all fearing?? Where Ross goes Brazil, does what we know he can, wins England a couple of games etc etc and suddenly he is in the spotlight, and off to Bayern?? Well Roy is trying to stop that, not because he cares if Ross goes Bayern or not, but because he doesn't want Euro 2016, Russia 2018, or even the knock-out stages of this competition to be 'Can Barkley win England the world cup?'. He doesn't actually believe what he said, almost guarenteed.

This is one of the things I love about Roy, he doesn't care what the media think of him, he will manage England how he wants to. All that pressure that could be on Barkley's shoulders this morning are now on his. Excellent management imo, well played.
 
Moyes used to always talk Ross down as well

It's like so many managers are afraid of him getting a big head. Is that in his character? Do they feel they need to hold him back from believing the hype?

Martinez is seemingly the only manager who has been willing to just unleash him

Two managers from the "old school" of management though appear to have shackled him. Very strange
 
Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Moyes used to always talk Ross down as well

It's like so many managers are afraid of him getting a big head. Is that in his character? Do they feel they need to hold him back from believing the hype?

Martinez is seemingly the only manager who has been willing to just unleash him

Two managers from the "old school" of management though appear to have shackled him. Very strange
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To be fair, I am not generally overly arrogant or anything, but if I had Ross' potential, I'd be as bad as Ronaldo tbh, regardless of his personality there is always a danger of a 20 year old in his position letting it go to his head.
 

ijjysmith said:
Gotta laugh at people so upset over the comments.

We all saw him play well. Why be bothered what other people think? Even the England manager.

And in all honesty what he said wasn't especially wrong. Barkley does need to work on getting the ball away quicker.

The problem is that he praised Rooney and Wilshire who did literally nothing.
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You're spot on. I've no issue with what Woy said about Ross, as I make him right. Ross's decision making is sometimes off, it's all part of his learning curve - albeit I'd hate to see his spontaneity coached out of him

I thought Rooney did Ok tbf, but Wlishire was absolute mince
 
After the match yesterday I was wondering what people would make of Ross. I think I'm starting to see what Martinez was getting at when he said he was a unique English player.

I don't think he is like any recent English player I can think of. Yes he is very technically gifted and yes he is inexperienced so his decision making is quite often poor, these things we all know. But I actually think it's his mentality that sets him apart. He clearly sees himself as a number 10 and is very single minded about what that entails - last night he played exactly the same as he did for us. That's not that common in a young English player, stepping up to the national team.

The English are obsessed with the all action hero, all the more so since Beckhams 'virtuoso' performance against Greece all those years ago. In my eyes England's biggest issue since has been players trying to be the hero, Rooney and Gerard running everywhere to get on the ball rather than playing their normal game. Ross doesn't do that, he finds space and he tries to turn and run, even on his first England start, desperate to impress he has absolutely no interest in making a tackle or tracking back. In these days of all action heroes he is a genuinely single minded flair player, a luxury - and that's in no way a criticism I think it's what England have been missing for a long time.

At international level he could go one way or the other, he could be Ronaldo or Zidane or he could be a Hoddle, Cassano, Riquelme type who never quite reaches the pinnacle. The media clamour for him now but these players need a lot of love and understanding from their manager and team mates. The fans/media seem to want him now but if England are losing in a World Cup quarter final and Ross lets a player who is one yard away from him stroll past him (as he always does) I can see him getting slammed for his lack of 'effort' or 'passion' and being scape-goated.

I think Ross is capable of taking that extra step to genuine world class. Rooney never did it, because he wasn't single minded enough, he wanted to do everyone's job as well as his own and he wasn't professional. Signs are Ross could be different but whether England is ready for a player like this is another question. We shall see I guess...
 
I think he's right to be fair. He does hang onto the ball a moment too long sometimes and his decision making needs a bit of work. There's a reason he only got, what, two assists all last year.

The thing is though, practically everything else about his game is there now. Once he learns when to shoot and when to pass more consistently he'll be frightening.
 

Jags said:
To be fair, I am not generally overly arrogant or anything, but if I had Ross' potential, I'd be as bad as Ronaldo tbh, regardless of his personality there is always a danger of a 20 year old in his position letting it go to his head.
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Indeed, it is a balancing act

I can only think though that Ross has shown something to these managers that has made them think "woah, better keep this lad in his place!" and Martinez has seen it as well but just thought "Sod it, let him do his thing"

If I were Barkley, I'd be starting to get a bit of a chip on my shoulder actually, especially if I was keeping my head down and doing what I was told

Now, he may be acting up behind the scenes and we just don't see it of course. If he was though, I would think it would have leeked out by now. I can only surmise then that what Moyes and now Hodgson are doing is a pre-emptive strike, which seems bizarre to me
 
Roy was just trying to dampen the expectation on Ross to my mind. Try and keep him off the other teams radars and not have the press all over him proclaiming him as England's saviour, however unlikely that may be as I am sure all the other teams are well aware of what Ross can do. That's my take on it anyway, the alternative, that Roy truly does not trust Ross and was not impressed with him last night, is too concerning to contemplate. So I wont, instead I will just remember Gerrard miscontroling a simple pass and slipping on his arse again.
 
Mikey_Fitzgerald said:
Indeed, it is a balancing act

I can only think though that Ross has shown something to these managers that has made them think "woah, better keep this lad in his place!" and Martinez has seen it to but just thought "Sod it, let him do his thing"

If I were Barkley, I'd be starting to get a bit of a chip on my shoulder actually, especially if I was keeping my head down and doing what I was told

Now, he may be acting up behind the scenes and we just don't see it of course. If he was though, I would think it would have leeked out by now. I can only surmise then that what Moyes and now Hodgson are doing is a pre-emptive strike, which seems bizarre to me
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To be fair Mikey, I can imagine the good cop (Martinez) bad cop (Hodgson) act might actually work in our favour. Hodgson makes Ross upset with a point to prove at the world cup and he comes back a better player for it, sometimes just praising someone doesn't make them reach their full potential, all carrot and no stick probably won't work on anyone. In the event that Hodgson's approach doesn't work though, Martinez can just stroke Ross' hair and say there there you're home now and he'll love us even more for it.
 
Some very sensitive souls today!

Barkley had a decent game, some great things, some average things, some poor things. We've seen him do that all season, and as he progresses the poor things will disappear and the great things will be more frequent. Hodgson is trying to temper all the expectation the media and public love to put on new young players that's all. He's not trying to take away the flair from Barkley's game he's trying to help eliminate the poor things he does, just like Martinez does and as we know from Bobby's statements this season Ross is a quick learner and will be better for it.
 

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