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Ross Barkley

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chrismanduk said:
The fact remains that they were nurtured through championship academies,
Premiership clubs have bought them because they were better than the kids they were developing.
Imo that makes the ****ty championships cloggers better at producing players.
If Ross Barkley has the ability to succeed he won't lose it by playing championship football.
Remember Swansea and Norwich played some of the best footy in the premier last season fresh from several years in the cloggers league.
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Who gives a crap about the academies - we're talking about senior first team football. World of difference. Crewe brought through decent youngsters for years; does that make their senior squad a place to learn world class technical football? Nope.

All of those players mentioned developed properly via Premier League experience after having raw talent identified from the doldrums of the lower leagues. The technical difference between the Premier League and Championship is massive.
 
1993–2003 Manchester United
1995 → Preston North End (loan)
2003–2007 Real Madrid
2007– Los Angeles Galaxy
2009 → Milan (loan)
2010 → Milan (loan)

Just sayin.
 
Okay, so Barkley doesn't go on loan.

So what do you think we should do with him changy and Tubey?

Who is he going to replace in the starting line up? He's not displacing Fellaini and Gibson. Naismith and Osman are also ahead of him in the pecking order. Mirallas if he signs will probably be on the right, with Pienaar on the left.

He's not going to start games, simple as. And coming on for 10 minutes, even if he did so every game, is not going to develop him as a player.

It's an absolute no-brainer to send him out on loan, where he'll get regular 90 minute match time week in, week out, at a good level.
 
MoutsGoat said:
1993–2003 Manchester United
1995 → Preston North End (loan)
2003–2007 Real Madrid
2007– Los Angeles Galaxy
2009 → Milan (loan)
2010 → Milan (loan)

Just sayin.
Click to expand...

For every one example like David Beckham developing a bit in the lower leagues, there's ten examples of players developing properly in the Premier League, with four listed above.
 
Tubey said:
Who gives a crap about the academies - we're talking about senior first team football. World of difference. Crewe brought through decent youngsters for years; does that make their senior squad a place to learn world class technical football? Nope.

All of those players mentioned developed properly via Premier League experience after having raw talent identified from the doldrums of the lower leagues. The technical difference between the Premier League and Championship is massive.
Click to expand...

Tom Cleverley - Man Utd.

Loaned to Leicester in 2009, then Watford where he played the full season for them. Then to Wigan for another season.
Now he's in their first team squad as a regular player. It's how you develope players.

Ferguson has been doing it for years. Is he wrong?
 

The only way he's going to get into our first team is if he proves to Moyes he doesn't mind doing the dirty work in the games like tracking back and helping the full backs out. All the top class midfielders in the world do that, and those who have watched him often say that's his biggest problem and the penny needs to drop.

Maybe giving him a glimpse of championship football will make him realise that he'll never reach the top level unless his becomes a well rounded player. Didn't hurt Beckham either and he turned out alright.
 
Tubey said:
For every one example like David Beckham developing a bit in the lower leagues, there's ten examples of players developing properly in the Premier League, with four listed above.
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Mate I dont wanna loan him out, I wanna see him play every game, not every minute, but I wanna see him play.

Sadly it seems as tho Moyes wont at the moment, it will do the lad good to get games under his belt.
 
Tubey said:
Who gives a crap about the academies - we're talking about senior first team football. World of difference. Crewe brought through decent youngsters for years; does that make their senior squad a place to learn world class technical football? Nope.

All of those players mentioned developed properly via Premier League experience after having raw talent identified from the doldrums of the lower leagues. The technical difference between the Premier League and Championship is massive.
Click to expand...

Like you said,these players were plunged straight into premier league teams meaning that they were technically good enough straight from the championship
 
Tubey said:
Who gives a crap about the academies - we're talking about senior first team football. World of difference. Crewe brought through decent youngsters for years; does that make their senior squad a place to learn world class technical football? Nope.

All of those players mentioned developed properly via Premier League experience after having raw talent identified from the doldrums of the lower leagues. The technical difference between the Premier League and Championship is massive.
Click to expand...

Seeing as you mention Crewe, Dean Ashton stayed there till what age? He did alright.
Nick Powell, he was in League one, at 17/18, obviously no way he could step up being taught his footballing lessons on a bomb site. Neil Lennon, Danny Murphy, Rob Jones; all obviously massive failures.

You're being incredibly ignorant.
 

Tubey said:
Moyes has mismanaged Barkley dramatically. He's kicking the confidence out of the lad. He doesn't need this loan; he needs Premier League football time at Everton.
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I just totally disagree with that. Moyes has managed him perfectly. Moyes sees him every day in training. He simply wasn't ready for first team footy so he took him out of it.

He also learnt his lesson from Rodwell and instead of thrusting him in the 1st team picture like Rodwell, he's going to treat Barkley as a long term project and send him out on loan.
 
BoysInBlue said:
Okay, so Barkley doesn't go on loan.

So what do you think we should do with him changy and Tubey?

Who is he going to replace in the starting line up? He's not displacing Fellaini and Gibson. Naismith and Osman are also ahead of him in the pecking order. Mirallas if he signs will probably be on the right, with Pienaar on the left.

He's not going to start games, simple as. And coming on for 10 minutes, even if he did so every game, is not going to develop him as a player.

It's an absolute no-brainer to send him out on loan, where he'll get regular 90 minute match time week in, week out, at a good level.
Click to expand...

First of all, he should never be played on the wings, ever.

Second, the Championship isn't a good level for Barkley. It isn't for Lukaku, and it isn't for Barkley. You don't send superbly gifted technical players to the Championship/League One. Simples. Cristiano Ronaldo wasn't sent out to Bournemouth at 17/18.

I'm not calling for him to start games. I'm saying he should be in and around the first team, training with the first team, getting to know the first team, learning top level tactics with the first team... Only at Everton would you find the best young player of his generation and you don't see him actively involved in the first team set up - instead you farm him out to a second-rate side at a lower level to learn his trade at the key part of his development.

He's been mismanaged by Moyes in my view, pure and simple.
 
Remember John Oster? Danny Cadamarteri? Huge prospects at the time... they benefited as young players from being thrust in the first team picture early didn't they?

Too much too soon can damage a player irrevocably.
 
Tommy. said:
Seeing as you mention Crewe, Dean Ashton stayed there till what age? He did alright.
Nick Powell, he was in League one, at 17/18, obviously no way he could step up being taught his footballing lessons on a bomb site. Neil Lennon, Danny Murphy, Rob Jones; all obviously massive failures.

You're being incredibly ignorant.
Click to expand...

Are any of those players top class, technically gifted footballers (except arguably Danny Murphy)?

Nooope.
 

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