Ross Barkley

[bicycleheader]

Surely it's just a debate on the pro's and cons of a player , just because some are more critical than others doesn't mean they are poor fans. Or is any discussion of any player only allowable if we discuss how wonderful said player is.?

Those fans have been sold to Chelsea now so it will all be okay now

Debate is fine, no problem with that. I just personally feel that an amazingly large % of people who claim football as a huge part of their lives don't actually seem to know much about it. It's fine. No biggy

 

[davek]

For me one of the most disappointing things with Ross is that he has this rare ability that you don't see very often in players. The ability to burst at teams like a juggernaut. Players like Toure, Gerrard, Gazza, Viera all had it and I think it was part of what set them apart in their pomp. What ever he does or doesn't do that people want to argue over this is the thing that I'm saddest about with him. It's either been coached out of him or maybe he doesn't feel confident enough to do it but I wish he would. It's one of the greatest sights in football when you find a player who can pick the ball up and drive at a team with power, pace and an ability to dance around them like they aren't there causing absolute havoc in his wake

100% this.

 

[bicycleheader]

100% this.

I know what you like to think has happened to this ability of Ross, but I am pretty sure that if we keep him and have a first XI with better quality we will see that player again.

Big IF though

 

[davek]

I know what you like to think has happened to this ability of Ross, but I am pretty sure that if we keep him and have a first XI with better quality we will see that player again.

Big IF though

Cant see it. Theoretically he's been liberated to do what he's done in the past with Davies now in behind him filling in gaps and he has a great foil in Lukaku ahead of him if he was to carry the ball as he has done in the past. I dont think it's encouraged by this manager. He wants Barkley to release the ball almost as soon as he gets it and, it seems to me, isn't a fan of Barkley's surges of old.

I believe we've seen the best of Barkley already at this club when he was used as part of a three man attack force with Mirallas and Lukaku. They placed massive pressure on opposition defences and it was a joy to watch. He must look at the way Eriksen, Alli, Son and Kane do something similar at Spurs and feel like he's missing out and that he'd like to have some of that.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

Those fans have been sold to Chelsea now so it will all be okay now

Debate is fine, no problem with that. I just personally feel that an amazingly large % of people who claim football as a huge part of their lives don't actually seem to know much about it. It's fine. No biggy

Haha , so in your opinion anyone who doesn't share your opinion ,knows nothing about football. ?

 

[bicycleheader]

Cant see it. Theoretically he's been liberated to do what he's done in the past with Davies now in behind him filling in gaps and he has a great foil in Lukaku ahead of him if he was to carry the ball as he has done in the past. I dont think it's encouraged by this manager. He wants Barkley to release the ball almost as soon as he gets it and, it seems to me, isn't a fan of Barkley's surges of old.

I believe we've seen the best of Barkley already at this club when he was used as part of a three man attack force with Mirallas and Lukaku. They placed massive pressure on opposition defences and it was a joy to watch.

Barkley doesn't release the ball as soon as he gets it Dave. He still holds on to it and sometimes messes up or sometimes goes nowhere when he realises our fullbacks are not bombing on and our attackers are making no movement.

 

[bicycleheader]

Haha , so in your opinion anyone who doesn't share your opinion ,knows nothing about football. ?

No, I don't believe I said that sir

 

[mkrudden]

For me one of the most disappointing things with Ross is that he has this rare ability that you don't see very often in players. The ability to burst at teams like a juggernaut. Players like Toure, Gerrard, Gazza, Viera all had it and I think it was part of what set them apart in their pomp. What ever he does or doesn't do that people want to argue over this is the thing that I'm saddest about with him. It's either been coached out of him or maybe he doesn't feel confident enough to do it but I wish he would. It's one of the greatest sights in football when you find a player who can pick the ball up and drive at a team with power, pace and an ability to dance around them like they aren't there causing absolute havoc in his wake

You're missing one big consideration though- what teams do to stop Ross Barkley.

That first season, where he quite literally exploded past players is unlikely to be seen again. Teams now get close to him, double up etc to stop that acceleration. What he doesn't have "yet" is the ability to consistently make a big difference with more subtle passes. He's improving but he's not there yet.

Don't get me wrong, every now and again we will see those bursts, just like we do Yaya Toure, because inevitably there will be times the game is stretched and he can look to take advantage.

He's come on leaps and bounds this season playing further forward, and he's shown progress in his final ball- notably against the poorer teams.

He now has to find that consistency and quality against the top teams which, as I say, is clearly not there yet.

 

[davek]

Barkley doesn't release the ball as soon as he gets it Dave. He still holds on to it and sometimes messes up or sometimes goes nowhere when he realises our fullbacks are not bombing on and our attackers are making no movement.

He certainly doesn't get on the ball and drive forward as much. Dribbles down from over 3 per game before Koeman arrived to 1.7 per game this season.

 

[bluerobert]

You're missing one big consideration though- what teams do to stop Ross Barkley.

That first season, where he quite literally exploded past players is unlikely to be seen again. Teams now get close to him, double up etc to stop that acceleration. What he doesn't have "yet" is the ability to consistently make a big difference with more subtle passes. He's improving but he's not there yet.

Don't get me wrong, every now and again we will see those bursts, just like we do Yaya Toure, because inevitably there will be times the game is stretched and he can look to take advantage.

He's come on leaps and bounds this season playing further forward, and he's shown progress in his final ball- notably against the poorer teams.

He now has to find that consistency and quality against the top teams which, as I say, is clearly not there yet.

Oh no mate don't get me wrong I know how much he's come on and what aspects of his game have and need to improve it's just I miss those runs. You're right about teams doubling up on him etc, I suppose it's not something I considered. The players that I mentioned did it regardless of being marked. They just burst past them, I hope it's something he can add to his game again

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

No, I don't believe I said that sir

Fair enough , I took it as implied.
Anyway I largely agree with your assessment of Barkley posted above. For what it's worth I hope he stays and becomes our lynchpin player , a task he has performed well at times this season. But we definitely need another creative player to help him out.
P.S. Please don't send me to Chelsea, they don't like me. I have a knife scar to prove it.

 

[davek]

You're missing one big consideration though- what teams do to stop Ross Barkley.

That first season, where he quite literally exploded past players is unlikely to be seen again. Teams now get close to him, double up etc to stop that acceleration. What he doesn't have "yet" is the ability to consistently make a big difference with more subtle passes. He's improving but he's not there yet.

Don't get me wrong, every now and again we will see those bursts, just like we do Yaya Toure, because inevitably there will be times the game is stretched and he can look to take advantage.

He's come on leaps and bounds this season playing further forward, and he's shown progress in his final ball- notably against the poorer teams.

He now has to find that consistency and quality against the top teams which, as I say, is clearly not there yet.

Maybe, but I think that's more of an argument for a move.

Better teams with more players who are a threat to opponents can create possibilities for him that aren't there with Everton. Those periods in games you identify as being stretched when space can be exploited are longer for better teams with better players.

 

[bicycleheader]

Fair enough , I took it as implied.
Anyway I largely agree with your assessment of Barkley posted above. For what it's worth I hope he stays and becomes our lynchpin player , a task he has performed well at times this season. But we definitely need another creative player to help him out.
P.S. Please don't send me to Chelsea, they don't like me. I have a knife scar to prove it.

Crikey

 

[bicycleheader]

Maybe, but I think that's more of an argument for a move.

Better teams with more players who are a threat to opponents can create possibilities for him that aren't there with Everton. Those periods in games you identify as being stretched when space can be exploited are longer for better teams with better players.

Okay assuming he stays, and I'm 100% sure he is, and leaving aside assumptions on why his dribbling is less frequent, what can be done transfer and tactics wise to get him firing again?

 

[4737carlin]

Barkley doesn't release the ball as soon as he gets it Dave. He still holds on to it and sometimes messes up or sometimes goes nowhere when he realises our fullbacks are not bombing on and our attackers are making no movement.

He wants to turn too much but half the time goes into a blind alley, maybe its the fault of the other players not giving him the options but at the same time I think its more a case of he dosent know what to do next