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Ross Barkley

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jackyboy said:
Personally don't think he is good enough to get the freedom to do what he wants. He's talented of that there is no doubt, but the fact is he doesn't score anywhere near enough goals and his head still goes in the biggest games is a worry. My view is that if you're going to make somebody the "10" and dissolve them of all positional or defensive responsibility there has to be a reason, otherwise you need to be another cog in the team.

As far as I'm concerned if he goes then we get as much money as we can and reinvest it straight back into the team. I have full faith in Koeman this summer, ideally to find us our Mane and Tadic with the Barkley money or at least one of them. I wouldn't be against Barkley signing a new contract, but I don't think he is as irreplaceable as I had previously thought. Also don't think him and Lukaku works as a partnership either.

Interested to know if people thought we were going to miss Stones or not? I have a feeling if Barkley goes we might see a similar situation.
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Missed him? No.

Still need a new back line since he's gone? Yes.

Rate the player? Yes. A lot.
 
After the Anfield derby, my brummie mate who'd come to the game with us said that if Ross wasn't from Merseyside we'd have got rid of him a long time ago. I find it hard to argue.

He's had three managers at Everton now. We complained Moyes was too conservative and defensive to ever fully trust him, but in retrospect he saw the rough edges that still haven't been smoothed and saw Ross needed time away in the Championship, where he still wasn't fully trusted. Martinez gave him total freedom and fulsome praise every week, which contributed both to some of his best performances and goals, but also this inflated sense of his own abilities he now seem to has. Koeman has tried the tough love, but Ross has since seemed put-out that he's not receiving that Martinez level of praise and encouragement, even when he's underperforming.

As mentioned above, if Ross does want to leave or "keep his options open", what does he actually think those options are? He's not the type to challenge himself abroad, especially when British teams pay so much better than all but the European super clubs. So who?

Chelsea - Conte would eat him alive

Tottenham - supposedly Pochettino is interested but a) Tottenham are notoriously tight with wages b) just like for England he would be Alli's understudy and rarely play and c) even if he moved out wide in that system Spurs play with three narrow number tens, does he actually think he'll dislodge Eriksen or Son??

Liverpool - I can't picture a man who has a full sleeve tattoo with the date he made his Everton debut moving to the RS. Even if he did want to cross the park in the ultimate betrayal, I can't see Klopp wanting him or him fitting in their system

City - Pep demands highly intelligent, high energy, high pressing players and has the best attacking midfielders in the league

United - so Ross doesn't like managers who publicly demand more of him or don't give enough praise to him in the media? Who's United's manager again? Hmmmm

Arsenal - on paper the best fit if Wenger stays. An underperforming, mercurial but tricky attacking midfielder who's accused of lacking bottle especially in the biggest games. Problem being? Wenger already has plenty of those and is unlikely to want to splash the cash on another, especially English, player.
 
Thomasc said:
Re the first part of your comments, they became great because they rolled their sleeves up and worked hard at it, it's not like they were blessed with a load of world class talent.

In the past they didn't have this ridiculous notion that every decent player thought he deserved CL football and held the club to ransom because of it at contract negotiation time.
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No, but it was a full team that had talent and class players as well as grit. Southall, Gray, Reid etc were in PFA teams of the year etc.

We don't have a team like that so it's unfair to compare.

The only thing we can compare is our two best players end up of end of year shortlists for best players of the year, and we're looking to lose them.
 
kenada_blue said:
Missed him? No.

Still need a new back line since he's gone? Yes.

Rate the player? Yes. A lot.
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Currently conceded the 5th least amount of goals in the division. Noone can deny the defence still needs work, yet it has improved massively from what has preceded it, where Stones was a mainstay of that backline.

Be interested to see if whoever replaces Barkley *if he leaves* can replace his output from the past few years. For the most part as our creative fulcrum and "goalscoring" midfielder.
 

Jt5688 said:
After the Anfield derby, my brummie mate who'd come to the game with us said that if Ross wasn't from Merseyside we'd have got rid of him a long time ago. I find it hard to argue.

He's had three managers at Everton now. We complained Moyes was too conservative and defensive to ever fully trust him, but in retrospect he saw the rough edges that still haven't been smoothed and saw Ross needed time away in the Championship, where he still wasn't fully trusted. Martinez gave him total freedom and fulsome praise every week, which contributed both to some of his best performances and goals, but also this inflated sense of his own abilities he now seem to has. Koeman has tried the tough love, but Ross has since seemed put-out that he's not receiving that Martinez level of praise and encouragement, even when he's underperforming.

As mentioned above, if Ross does want to leave or "keep his options open", what does he actually think those options are? He's not the type to challenge himself abroad, especially when British teams pay so much better than all but the European super clubs. So who?

Chelsea - Conte would eat him alive

Tottenham - supposedly Pochettino is interested but a) Tottenham are notoriously tight with wages b) just like for England he would be Alli's understudy and rarely play and c) even if he moved out wide in that system Spurs play with three narrow number tens, does he actually think he'll dislodge Eriksen or Son??

Liverpool - I can't picture a man who has a full sleeve tattoo with the date he made his Everton debut moving to the RS. Even if he did want to cross the park in the ultimate betrayal, I can't see Klopp wanting him or him fitting in their system

City - Pep demands highly intelligent, high energy, high pressing players and has the best attacking midfielders in the league

United - so Ross doesn't like managers who publicly demand more of him or don't give enough praise to him in the media? Who's United's manager again? Hmmmm

Arsenal - on paper the best fit if Wenger stays. An underperforming, mercurial but tricky attacking midfielder who's accused of lacking bottle especially in the biggest games. Problem being? Wenger already has plenty of those and is unlikely to want to splash the cash on another, especially English, player.
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Spurs have a threadbare squad. They don't have a replacement/back up for Eriksen. They want to compete in all competitions.

Harry Winks made 33 appearances for Spurs this season.

Forget about playing week in week out (no one is sure if he would or not) but he'll add quality and depth to a team that's miles ahead of ours.
 
jackyboy said:
Currently conceded the 5th least amount of goals in the division. Noone can deny the defence still needs work, yet it has improved massively from what has preceded it, where Stones was a mainstay of that backline.

Be interested to see if whoever replaces Barkley *if he leaves* can replace his output from the past few years. For the most part as our creative fulcrum and "goalscoring" midfielder.
Click to expand...

Wasn't hard on the back of Martinez' defend last approach as the mainstay of the defense has always been solid. It needed organization.

Point will be is that Stones will be a huge part of City next season and suits that type of club as he's a classy player that needs a good CB partnership. He wouldn't be suited to us as the moment.
 
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Eggs said:
...who knows what's going on but as some have rightly pointed out to me, RK has invested a lot of time in developing Barkley's game in an attempt to make him a more rounded midfielder. The assumption is that the club have offered the lad a significantly improved and long-term contract which suggests he's wanted. The player, however, has not signed which suggests to me that he fancies a move.

There's nothing wrong with that, it's a fact of the modern game. If he's not signing the club need to get the best deal possible and bring in a replacement.
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Ultimately i don't actually know if i am that bothered anymore, it's dragged out that long that if he stays - fine, if he goes, oh well we will get a solid fee and move on and maybe get someone who suits the system naturally better

Have the feeling if he stays - in 3-4 years time we will still be wondering when the potential will turn into actual reality.

I'm also coming more and more ot the idea that Barkley and Lukaku both need a team structured around the way they play to get any consistency and the best out of them that the two players may be mutually exclusive in the same team.
 
davek said:
His game hasn't developed at all this season. All the talk that it had a few months back was garbage. It was never anywhere near the truth.

The lad plays in a certain way - HAS to play in a certain way - where he is given a lot of license to get on the ball and drive at the opposition. If it breaks down, then it breaks down. But THAT is Ross's game and trying to limit that and ask him to get on the ball and lay it off more often is curtailing who he is as a footballer.

It could well be his agent is advising Barkley to hold off signing until Lukaku's situation is resolved. My suspicion is that he knows that the club cant possibly allow him and Lukaku to go and join Stones out the door within 12 months as it will look appallingly like we have nothing to offer this kind of talent. Regardless of that though, we have an unhappy player-manager relationship and it's doing no one any good.
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Dave serious question with no agendas etc, do you think both Lukaku and Barkley can feuture in the same team without the balance being way off in that team due to the way both play (strengths and weaknesses) and IF they can't - i don't think they actually can both be at their best consistantly in the same side, then which would you keep given the choice?
 

kenada_blue said:
Wasn't hard on the back of Martinez' defend last approach as the mainstay of the defense has always been solid. It needed organization.

Point will be is that Stones will be a huge part of City next season and suits that type of club as he's a classy player that needs a good CB partnership. He wouldn't be suited to us as the moment.
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Fair enough mate.

I am incredibly interested to see how Stones gets on at City next season, one thing is for sure, that another season like this won't look too great for Guardiola.
 
Papa Shango said:
Perhaps the club doesn't want him that much either...
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Even if the club were relatively ambivalent about him staying long term, they'd still want him to commit to a new deal as his value would immediately rise the moment he put pen to paper.

The reason he's not yet signed is down to him, what his thought process is I've no idea.
 
jackyboy said:
Fair enough mate.

I am incredibly interested to see how Stones gets on at City next season, one thing is for sure, that another season like this won't look too great for Guardiola.
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His back line has been awful this season. Awful keeper, midfielders as fullbacks, fullbacks as centre halves. Theres no partnerships
 

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