Ross Barkley

[CRIMHEAD]

Just getting a chance to read this properly, as you say interesting reading.

Quick question as haven't seen this k-means clusting before. He says that the data has been taken from the last two years but in that time we haven't really had anyone who is a natural #10 in the squad, so wonder how much of an influence that was in this assessment "Nominally, Sigurdsson is more of a 10 than Barkley. Actually, however, the difference between the two is pretty small with both lying on the edge of their clusters about to overlap. Do they play in the same position? Most of the time, yes".

Wonder if Ross felt he had to move up higher on the pitch than he would naturally prefer, both to avoid stepping on the toes of more defensive minded players like Barry and because otherwise we'd have a gap. Just wondering how that would affect the results, especially as he already seems to win back the ball in deeper areas anyway so a deeper role might well suit him better anyway.

It says that Ross holds the ball a ton more, really.

Ross does love to hold the ball and usually does it too far from goal to be a threat.

Sigurdsson is nothing like that. He plays higher, plays killer passes, is amazing on crosses, corners, and free kicks. And he need very little space to score. He doesn't hold the ball much, either.

Ross would be fine playing deeper if he was a true box to box guy. He just doesn't seem to be much in the tackle and his defensive positioning is far from good enough.

Honestly, I think he should be better than Klassen as they can play similar roles. But Koeman is right. Ross needs to play farther up the pitch and be more dangerous. But man, it would be NICE if he had some support around his besides Rom. Put Sigurdsson on one side in a 4-3-3 who commands attention, someone like Traore with some pace on the other, or even Sandro, with Rom in the middle, Ross might be more effective.

But again, I keep him and not bother with Klassen.

 

[mixed_up]

He doesn't though - his dispossession rate is not far off Ozil etc.

Barkley often has no intelligent movement ahead of him, so on occasion he'll be stuck for options, turn and get smothered - when that happens, they catch the eye and linger in the mind, but they're not as common as people make out.

You are 100% right about Barkley! It has been on his and only his onus to create score goals last season for and with Lukaku. Bolasie was promising but got injured and the likes of Mirallas didn't produce. In a way, especially at Goodison, the pressure was all on Barkley. But where I disagree with you is in the concept that Koeman doesn't rate him. He gave him 32 league starts and wasn't ever overly harsh on him. He was prepared to sub Davies after 26 minutes against Arsenal in an essentially meaningless game so I very much doubt he doesn't rate Barkley's potential either. He just wanted him to replicate the form in Martinez's first season. The problem is Barkley tries his best but is not being played in midfield, not being played up front, and is essentially being used as a random player on the field when he is capable of so much more than that. We have Besic, Gana, Schneiderlin, Davies, potentially Klaassen, and still McCarthy at the club, and then Barkley as the only one who is expected or hoped to be a world-beater or set up goals for Lukaku. I don't agree with the assessment that Koeman doesn't rate or care if Barkley leaves the club. Barkley is quality but needs to be played cm or out and out free role in the hole (it needs to be defined and it has not been to date) and his role at Everton has been very random since Martinez's days. It's sad and all parties including the club are to blame.

Considering all I said above, I would just move him on but to say it's not a shame is an understatement. He also should have been on a better wage and longer contract before Koeman arrived, but I blame the board for that not Koeman.

 

[Tubey]

You are 100% right about Barkley! It has been on his and only his onus to create score goals last season for and with Lukaku. Bolasie was promising but got injured and the likes of Mirallas didn't produce. In a way, especially at Goodison, the pressure was all on Barkley. But where I disagree with you is in the concept that Koeman doesn't rate him. He gave him 32 league starts and wasn't ever overly harsh on him. He was prepared to sub Davies after 26 minutes against Arsenal in an essentially meaningless game so I very much doubt he doesn't rate Barkley's potential. He just wanted him to replicate the form in Martinez's first season. The problem is Barkley tries his best but is not being played in midfield, not being played up front, and is essentially being used as a random player on the field when he is capable of so much more than that. We have Besic, Gana, Schneiderlin, Davies, potentially Klaassen, and still McCarthy at the club, and then Barkley as the only one who is expected or hoped to be a world-beater or set up goals for Lukaku. I don't agree with the assessment that Koeman doesn't rate or care if Barkley leaves the club. Barkley is quality but needs to be played cm or out and out free role in the hole (it needs to be defined and it has not been to date) and his role at Everton has been very random since Martinez's days. It's sad and all parties including the club are to blame.

Considering all I said above, I would just move him on but to say it's not a shame is an understatement. He also should have been on a better wage and longer contract before Koeman arrived, but I blame the board for that not Koeman.

Didn't say Koeman doesn't rate him to be honest - truth is I don't know about that. All I know about Koeman in all of this is he should have kept his trap shut and not give stupid, braindead non-existent deadlines in public, which at least indicates that he doesn't see him as vital to his plans moving forward.

As for game time, we simply had no other player for his role at all. Barkley set up a load of chances for Lukaku last season - I can't remember the exact figures but I think Lukaku converted less than a third of them, because his movement took him into improbable positions and he had shots blocked etc.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/row-zed/ross-barkley-creating-chances-stats-10273928

I don't buy the narrative that Barkley had a 'bad' season, or even an average one - he had a very good one in a team that featured a static lump of a striker who had no interest in pulling defenders around and opening up space. There's no doubt in my mind that in a better team he'd be a better player; that's why it frustrates me and has frustrated me for several seasons that we have shown no desire to build around him, and instead stuck with the easy to nullify "get the ball to Lukaku" policy.

This summer gave that opportunity by finally getting rid of the shackles of Lukaku and starting afresh, but Everton being Everton we appear to have completely botched the chance to do it. Whether Klaasen, Sigurdsson or whoever come in, I really doubt if anyone will offer the potential high performance we can reach playing around such a uniquely gifted physical and technical offensive footballer as Barkley.

We should pay him whatever he wants if it's about money, but I don't actually think it is. I think he wants to make the next jump to elite level, and he hasn't seen anything to suggest he can achieve it at Everton, which is more of an indictment on the club and its' ambition than it is on Barkley.

 

[ProZ]

Ross is the same off the field as on..

Takes to long to make up his mind with suspect decision making.

 

[Tubey]

Ross is the same off the field as on..

Takes to long to make up his mind with suspect decision making.

I've seen constantly what the issue with Barkley is, and I understand it - he looks around, sees Crap Option A, Crap Option B, so he looks for Decent Option C and because of the terrible movement on display most games, particularly away from home, he gets caught before he finds it.

At better clubs, he gets Option A & B and he'll play quicker and decisively. He's a hell of an intelligent footballer, regardless of his off the field IQ.

 

[ProZ]

I've seen constantly what the issue with Barkley is, and I understand it - he looks around, sees Crap Option A, Crap Option B, so he looks for Decent Option C and because of the terrible movement on display most games, particularly away from home, he gets caught before he finds it.

At better clubs, he gets Option A & B and he'll play quicker and decisively. He's a hell of an intelligent footballer, regardless of his off the field IQ.

He needs to get back to his first season and have a run at people and try to score goals, if he can't get a decent chance by the end of his run and there is a pass on he should then get rid of it. He needs the manager to say to him to be more direct and try and get a goal every time he picks up the ball. Never mind how much Lukaku moans.

 

[Hogwild]

If you assume a), then how do you know b) ?

Because Ross has not said he wants to leave and Rom has said staying is not an option.

Also - had Chinese tonight and oddly enough the fortune cookie read:

Ross is a true blue at heart
Rom well not so much
One stays one off to chelski

Weird right? Fortune cookie haiku AND about Everton!

 

[mixed_up]

We should pay him whatever he wants if it's about money, but I don't actually think it is.

100% agreed. He's been on £40k a week for years (Niasse Cleverley on £55k a week! Lol) , the club should have encouraged and tied him down at least 18 months ago. Lazy work. I very much doubt he's 'turned down' £100k a week like the papers are saying (and no doubt Everton lied about and leaked). He wouldn't get that at Spurs or anywhere else. Just bs paper talk. The situation is much deeper that imo. His form in Martinez's first season should have earned a £70k+ week a contract if we had any sense.

 

[Tubey]

He needs to get back to his first season and have a run at people and try to score goals, if he can't get a decent chance by the end of his run and there is a pass on he should then get rid of it. He needs the manager to say to him to be more direct and try and get a goal every time he picks up the ball. Never mind how much Lukaku moans.

But he does. He ran the ball twice as often as Sigurdsson for example, and was dispossessed less too.

He can't run 30/40 yards if others aren't pulling into channels and moving defenders about, and I can't stress that enough. No player is bullet proof for me, and I've criticised Barkley frequently when he has an outright bad game, but nine times out of ten you look around when he gets the ball and nobody is doing anything off the ball. Most if not all players would struggle when you have Lukaku stood static with his hand in the air moaning and Mirallas sulking and looking disinterested in front of you.

 

[Tubey]

100% agreed. He's been on £40k a week for years (Niasse Cleverley on £55k a week! Lol) , the club should have encouraged and tied him down at least 18 months ago. Lazy work. I very much doubt he's 'turned down' £100k a week like the papers are saying (and no doubt Everton lied about and leaked). He wouldn't get that at Spurs or anywhere else. Just bs paper talk. The situation is much deeper that imo. His form in Martinez's first season should have earned a £70k+ week a contract if we had any sense.

If I were him, I'd see the club offering Lukaku £150k or whatever it was after years of disrespecting the club every time he goes to Belgium, whereas I'm earning a fraction of that despite being a model pro and being the creative engine of the entire team, and not being offered a contract until March and then being given a three month deadline to sign it despite a team mate being treated with kid gloves over a similar issue.

My belief, though I can't prove it, is that Barkley wants two things - to see ambition from the club, and to be valued as a footballer at the club he loves. Moshiri hasn't yet provided the former, and I believe Koeman hasn't provided the latter.

I can't blame him in the slightest for at least thinking of leaving. If he wasn't a hometown lad, there'd be pretty few reasons for him to stay.

 

[mixed_up]

If I were him, I'd see the club offering Lukaku £150k or whatever it was after years of disrespecting the club every time he goes to Belgium, whereas I'm earning a fraction of that despite being a model pro and being the creative engine of the entire team, and not being offered a contract until March and then being given a three month deadline to sign it despite a team mate being treated with kid gloves over a similar issue.

My belief, though I can't prove it, is that Barkley wants two things - to see ambition from the club, and to be valued as a footballer at the club he loves. Moshiri hasn't yet provided the former, and I believe Koeman hasn't provided the latter.

I can't blame him in the slightest for at least thinking of leaving. If he wasn't a hometown lad, there'd be pretty few reasons for him to stay.

to be fair, reports of contract offer to RB only appeared in mid-april. This is fact. I've proved this in my previous posts. Last year Koeman said we'd hold talks not until January but it was only until mid-april reports of a contract were confirmed in the papers. In fact Koeman said this on 9th March:

"We will do everything to keep Ross and (to get him) to sign a new contract. Talks are planned but I don’t think they have started yet," said Koeman.

“I spoke to Ross about the future and like everybody he likes to win titles and play Champions League football, but he has still one more year contract, and we, at Everton, like to keep the best players and he has shown this season he is improving in different positions for the team. He is doing well.

“I spoke to the board about his situation, we like to bring and show the confidence that we have in the player to sign a new contract.

“What we can do is to show the best for him as a platform to grow and to improve as a player and the final decision is always by the player. I don't have any comments from his side that he likes to move or that will not sign a new contract, he hasn’t mentioned that to me."

It all escalated very quickly! I think Barkley is leaving mate, but I don't think that was Barkley's ideal situation in his head. Club should have tied him down 2 years ago.

 

[Mosh Pit]

He doesn't though - his dispossession rate is not far off Ozil etc.

Barkley often has no intelligent movement ahead of him, so on occasion he'll be stuck for options, turn and get smothered - when that happens, they catch the eye and linger in the mind, but they're not as common as people make out.

Yep I'm a fan of his like & i know he gets a hard time. But, even still. Pep told me he likes his midfielders to have magnetic powers. It's a no from me

 

[Jags..class]

Let him go

 

[MikeH72]

The question still remains... where is he going to go?

 

[roydo]

The question still remains... where is he going to go?

Its a tricky one.

Newcastle???