Safari 4

[GhostOfDixie]

Safari 4 is my browser of choice, as it's pretty cutting edge in terms of features, but still in beta.

This site doesn't work so well with it, and many of the buttons for some reason don't work. Which may well be down to the forum software.

Just given you a heads up for when all the other browsers catch up.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

Dont think its wise to disclose person info of other members Ghost (Maybe edit that out?)

If a member earns his living from one job, and is currently studying book keeping - then I would say their profession is the job that earns them a living.

In fact, that member himself told me in his house that he does book keeping as a bit of a hobby because he is into that kind of thing - (he done it for free for a community centre thing)

Of course he did. Well you obviously think I am a part time hobbyist, maybe I will sack off my business, and just tit about. Just so you can be proven right.

There is obviously nothing I can say or do to prove that I am a professional and I studied, like you, to get a qualification to do a job and get paid for it.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

He did. Ask him.

Words went along the lines of "I'm a bit of a nerd, I like it really, do it as a hobby" Then he mentioned about doing it free for a volunteer group in Kirkby. I remember it well.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

He did. Ask him.

Words went along the lines of "I'm a bit of a nerd, I like it really, do it as a hobby" Then he mentioned about doing it free for a volunteer group in Kirkby. I remember it well.

Ok, whatever. Not really interested anymore.

Just let's drop it, because it's getting a bit frustrating for me. Whether or not you believe my job to be a profession or not, is not really for you to say. You can have your opinion, but that opinion is not based on fact.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Ok, whatever. Not really interested anymore.

Just let's drop it, because it's getting a bit frustrating for me. Whether or not you believe my job to be a profession or not, is not really for you to say. You can have your opinion, but that opinion is not based on fact.

You'll find most opinions are exactly that, opinions.

I have reiterated throughout that its my opinion.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

You'll find most opinions are exactly that, opinions.

I have reiterated throughout that its my opinion.

Yeah but you have also insinuated that I am not a professional if I also work in a restaurant.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Yeah but you have also insinuated that I am not a professional if I also work in a restaurant.

In my opinion, professional web designers are those who can earn their entire living of their work.

Thats my opinion. An opinion from someone who could equally claim to be a professional web designer, having met all your criteria earlier.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

In my opinion, professional web designers are those who can earn their entire living of their work.

Thats my opinion. An opinion from someone who could equally claim to be a professional web designer, having met all your criteria earlier.

The restaurant work is a case of no choice. I run a business, and I have to meet certain committments, plus I enjoy meeting new people and have actually gotten work out of networking in the restaurant.

Believe me mate, when I am working at home or at the restaurant, I am still working at my profession - I find the restaurant work easy money, and who would be a fool to turn down extra cash.

I know your not going to budge, your like me there. I'm not going to budge either. So maybe best to just let it go and close the thread.

 

[Nebbiolo]

If Nick designs websites and gets paid for them, that's a profession. Whether or not he he works at other jobs can't negate the fact that people give him money for designing websites for them. If I worked as a civil servant but also drove a taxi at night to make ends meet, I would still be a professional civil servant. I don't think it would be correct to classify my work for the government as a hobby.

 

[GhostOfDixie]

If Nick designs websites and gets paid for them, that's a profession. Whether or not he he works at other jobs can't negate the fact that people give him money for designing websites for them. If I worked as a civil servant but also drove a taxi at night to make ends meet, I would still be a professional civil servant. I don't think it would be correct to classify my work for the government as a hobby.

Exactly.

I can understand where Danny's opinion is coming from. There are many many web designers who are hobbyist, doing a job here and there, and maybe getting a few quid to do their mate's site or whatever. That is a problem I have had to face when fixing many business2business sites that have an employee create something because he read a tutorial on Web Designer weekly or something.

I live and breathe web design and development. It's not something I do as a part time hobby, I put in about 60 hours a week at my job.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Exactly.

I can understand where Danny's opinion is coming from. There are many many web designers who are hobbyist, doing a job here and there, and maybe getting a few quid to do their mate's site or whatever. That is a problem I have had to face when fixing many business2business sites that have an employee create something because he read a tutorial on Web Designer weekly or something.

I live and breathe web design and development. It's not something I do as a part time hobby, I put in about 60 hours a week at my job.

And because there are so many off them, (the vast majority of web designers are these...), as a rule of thumb, unless someone earns their living as a web designer (doesnt do it on the side), I, as in I personally, dont regard them to be a professional web designer. Thats not me being demeaning in anyway. Thats just my opinion.

As I said, I could claim to be a web designer. This forum isn't the be all and end all of what I can do. If I gave you access to the FTP/etc Ghost you would be very surprised with the amount of coding involved because clearly you aren't with the "you only run a forum" remark, in fact, I would say custom vBulletin modification is as complex as you typical coding is going to come. But I dont regard myself as a professional web designer because web design doesn't, and couldn't pay all my bills.

I suppose its what you attach to the word 'professional' Clearly, it has different meanings to us.

Oh and Neb. Being a civil servant or/and taxi driving aren't hobbies, are they?

Imagine at an Interview "What are your hobbies..."

"Oh, I'm a civil servant and a taxi driver"

You wouldn't get the job on that comment alone as clearly you would have misunderstood the term hobby.

But "What are your hobbies..."

"In my spare time I am a freelance web designer"

Massive, massive difference.

Web design (which I have been paid for) is a hobby of mine - and for an awful lot of fellow nerds 8).

 

[Nebbiolo]

Oh and Neb. Being a civil servant or/and taxi driving aren't hobbies, are they?

And neither is running a business that turns over £30k a year.

I don't know Ghost's personal business, but based on the information he has supplied, web design is a business for him, not a hobby.

If your web design skills brought you in that much revenue yearly, you would also in my view be a professional web designer.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

And neither is running a business that turns over £30k a year.

I don't know Ghost's personal business, but based on the information he has supplied, web design is a business for him, not a hobby.

If your web design skills brought you in that much revenue yearly, you would also in my view be a professional web designer.

You honestly thought Ghost earned £30,000 a year, from doing 100 websites (of which only 5 or 6 are in his portfolio? - You need to improve that Ghost...) in 5 years?

Do the math

I assume he meant from both jobs, a substantial amount of that will be his restaurant work.

 

[Nebbiolo]

You honestly thought Ghost earned £30,000 a year, from doing 100 websites (of which only 5 or 6 are in his portfolio? - You need to improve that Ghost...) in 5 years?

Do the math

I assume he meant from both jobs, a substantial amount of that will be his restaurant work.

It just seems from the tone of your posts that you want to expose him as a fraud, Danny. I just can't see for what end you would want to do that. What does it achieve?

 

[GrandOldTeam]

It just seems from the tone of your posts that you want to expose him as a fraud, Danny. I just can't see for what end you would want to do that. What does it achieve?

Don't know where you got that from. If I thought he was a fraud, I would say so. He clearly isn't, because he can design websites?

We just appear to have a different idea as to what constitutes to be a professional web designer.

I have a clear distinction;

Professional web designer - A very small minority of web designers, someone who can earn a comfortable living out of it in isolation.

Some would agree, some would disagree. Each to their own and all that.

As Ghost said, and he's spot on... theres a ridiculous amount of "web designers" out there. Who are no better than someone with a disposable camera claiming to be a professional photographer, due to that... I have a very clear distinction as to what constitutes a professional web designer. Which I have reiterated time and time again and I wont any further. Ghost has his, I disagree. I dont think designing business cards is a characteristic of a web designer for example. I also dont regard myself as a professional, but according to Ghost, I am. Am I attempting to expose myself as a fraud? No.

 

[Nebbiolo]

Fair enough, but whether or not you meant to be unkind to Ghost, that's how your posts came across to me. But you're a nice person, which is why I was surprised at how you were speaking to him. It's not like you to have a pop at someone like that. Maybe I'm just in an ultra-sensitive mood today and am reading to much into what you said.