Sam Allardyce

[Khalekan]

If we sign him, do you promise to learn how to spell his name?

Take it up with whoever succeeded Steve Jobs.

I know how to spell his name.

But this here Apple iPad must have “corrected” my spelling.

 

[sageyefc]

Sack sack sack

 

[dancing llama]

Not sure how much credit there is going round for thinking "hey it might be a good idea to sign a 50 cap England international with a decade of PL experience and a proven history of scoring goals for a price which is a steal in today's terms"

Think we could pretty much all have unearthed that particular hidden gem.

Yep - I never said how much credit I was giving him, just that he can have a bit

 

[Barnfred 55]

It's definitely valid to judge him after 24 competitive games. And the best judgement one can give is that he has done an adequate job in terms of results and likely league placement - even the staunchest anti-Allardyce Evertonian last November would have probably agreed that an 8th place finish would suggest he had done what he was hired to do.

Over that period, any notion of him keeping his job has to be considered alongside the likelihood he will enable us to progress. Being a mid-table side is pointless for Everton. We've finished between 5th-11th in every one of the last 12 seasons now and the apathy amongst fans will continue to grow if there doesn't appear a clear attempt by the board to start pushing for the top four (and it's important to stress that I doubt many fans will be demanding top four next season, rather just seeing the club aiming in that direction).

Obviously key to the above is the manager, so the question has to be whether we think Allardyce is a man who can do it. Based on the football we've played under him and the four years (three in the PL) he spent doing the exact same thing with no discernible improvement at WHU, I'd personally say he doesn't have the skillset to improve us beyond where we are at present. I think if he was to stay he'd sign a couple of decent players this summer and see us finish 7th and trophyless next season, playing the same turgid stuff. For that reason, ignoring his personality and public reputation, I'm in favour of binning him.

If someone thinks he'd be capable of making us competitive with the current top six then fair enough. Just don't see it myself.

Plus, he has tits. Koeman, Unsworth and Allardyce all have tits. I'd like someone with no tits.

Keira Knightly?

 

[davek]

I am not as confident if i am honest, you know my take on appointing someone based on philosophy and backing that, the constant changing of managers has left us mixed identity and cohesive philosophy stretching back to Martinez. Poor governance hasnt helped. The club is haemeraging money on the cost of all the above on managers and poor recruitment.

I suppose it how you see Sam, its a decsion on headroom really, do you think he can recruit well and improve performences, i tend to think he deserves the oppurtuinty. To be fair he has broght the clubs head up to the glass ceiling again, with a mixed bag of poorly construted squad that dont play the type of football he wants. Thats my take.

Some seem rigid in the view, that what is happening wont vary and thats fair enough, no body knows the future.

But its a high risk game, people wanted Martinez out for the very thing they are now asking for and wanted results based team. Fans opinions are wishy washy really and based on impulse with little learning and reflection, the dangerous thing really is it has been reflected on the ground in the club, no identity, no philosophy no cohesive plan, a period of sustainability or even a season to rationalise and take a breath i think would be no harm for Everton for the reason i mention above. Im not rigid in my thinking that performances could improve and good recruitment could take place.

There will be cohort who will always dislike him, it seems to be very think. But a run of good results as can be seen in the last two games softens many. It will be very interesting if we win our last two games, which we could well do.

You say: "a period of sustainability or even a season to rationalise and take a breath i think would be no harm for Everton". But can you really see that happening with the tumult that surrounds Allardyce even now when he has us 8th?

There will be no stability and sense of unity by extending Allardyce's tenure. Of course, if the players are with him we can grind out another midtable season again and that might be 'sustainability' as far as Moshiri goes but there will be continuing agitation and a low level of morale throughout the club...not exactly what you need from a fanbase you're asking to take with you into a new stadium project.

Choose Allardyce and there will be either the grim and surly acceptance of severely managed and massaged-down expectations or an out and out civil war.

That's why it really is a no-brainer to get shut of him next month.

 

[Barnfred 55]

To be honest if Moshiri doesn't know by now how short term Sam is then he's well out of his depth

I really think nothing has been decided yet. I think he's waiting on answers from potential new managers and DOF before dismissing Allardyce and if he gets refusals may decide to continue with him. Anti Allardyce feelings from other board members are probably complicating matters further.

I agree that Mosh is probably out of his depth which us why he needs to bring in an experienced football person as our CEO.

 

[Joey66]

The main plus from sam is his signings of Tosun and Walcott who have by and large delivered results.

Tosun - the player Sam at first would not select you mean !
Too cold for him
Not Prem standard
Beskitis offering to buy him back
That Tosun ?

 

[blueblue]

I find it genuinely baffling that you’d rather a tried and tested bang average (and not to mention odious) manager rather than a manager with an unknown ceiling. If it went wrong, there is always the “allardyces” of this world to call on and put the fire out. Can’t stand and watch our neighbours playing scintillating stuff, almost in a champions league final, and just accept our lot as the 8th best team in England. Not for me.

It's not his ceiling that worries me, it is his floor.

 

[mutley]

The reasons why he could see out his contract

1 It would save about 9m pay off of him and his backroom staff , we can't keep paying managers off.
2 He's brought in 2 good players already
3 He's done a good job having us around 6th place since he's been here, we conceded about 30 goals in the previous 10 games.
4 He's said he's going to trim the squad down,
5 He said the squad is too big and there are players holding the youngsters back, expect him to offload a few senior players
6 He said the players he brings in will be better than we have now so will be straight in the team, i'm taking that as no more signing youngsters, we have enough in the squad.
7 The players are publicly saying they are improving with him as the manager.

With all that in place why can't BS have us playing better football with HIS team and why can't we break the top 6 ?

 

[blueblue]

I really think nothing has been decided yet. I think he's waiting on answers from potential new managers and DOF before dismissing Allardyce and if he gets refusals may decide to continue with him. Anti Allardyce feelings from other board members are probably complicating matters further.

I agree that Mosh is probably out of his depth which us why he needs to bring in an experienced football person as our CEO.

I do agree that if certain managers agree to join Everton then Sam will be asked to leave, but I think the managers being looked at are far higher calibre and more difficult to attract than Silva or Fonseca.

 

[Carlito]

A groundswell of support after a victory over Huddersfield Town.

Stick a fork in this club. It's done.

 

[KaiserEFC]

I’m not bothered how well people perceive he has done, we should show no loyalty (not that he deserves it imo). The club must come first.

Realistically unless we fluke a cup we aren’t winning anything, it’s just the way football has become. So to a fan the most important thing is surely entertainment and moments to remember, and for me getting into Europe. Sam Allardyces Everton do not entertain, the only moments they provide are sour or damn near farcical ones. He has zero European pedigree and likely wouldn’t take the competition seriously anyway.

We need to bring someone in who will actually make Everton enjoyable and can create a base for us to qualify for a European competition year in year out. Allardyce is not that man.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

The same squad was getting spanked 4-1 against a Southampton team that is going down. It’s like everyone is choosing to forget that we’re a lot better than we were.

Don't think anyone is disputing that?

However, this is about next season, not this one, and Allardyce has never, in a decades long career in management, given any indication that he's capable of the sort of progression to the levels above where we are now.

 

[Neiler]

You say: "a period of sustainability or even a season to rationalise and take a breath i think would be no harm for Everton". But can you really see that happening with the tumult that surrounds Allardyce even now when he has us 8th?

There will be no stability and sense of unity by extending Allardyce's tenure. Of course, if the players are with him we can grind out another midtable season again and that might be 'sustainability' as far as Moshiri goes but there will be continuing agitation and a low level of morale throughout the club...not exactly what you need from a fanbase you're asking to take with you into a new stadium project.

Choose Allardyce and there will be either the grim and surly acceptance of severely managed and massaged-down expectations or an out and out civil war.

That's why it really is a no-brainer to get shut of him next month.

No i think there will be as much discontent as there is at the moment but it always results dependent, as i say some will just never like him and that is fair enough those people wont be for changing, but the significant cohort of fans would be content if Everton are doing well and being competitive and their was something that could be achieved in my opinion. There are many in the thread that are seeing some green shoots and weighing up the context who arent indisposed to him staying another year given the context. That the way i see it. Of course it works the other way around, if he is not doing well he has little collateral with the fan base to foster good will. Its more of a fluid then a rigid thing for me.

The other thing i think is that fans cant identify with any of our players, there are very players like a Cahill, Arteta, Ferguson etc that fans can call a hero or really relate to. Some clever recruitment and the bringing in of good players changes that in my opinion and the association improves Sams popularity, all it takes is one signing like a Payet (not saying we should sign him), to change some of the above. Walcott and Tosun are proving a case in point.

Ultimately though i look at three things that need to happen for a changing manager, they have to loose the fans, they have to loose the players (results), they have to loose the board, that ebbs and flows at anyone time and are of course often linked. Im not so sure he has lost the board, i suspect not and im pretty certain he definitely hasn't lost the players, it looks a happy ship at the moment. Fans opinions are currently at extreme ends of being grateful for the job he has done or dislike no matter what, so im not sure he has lost the whole fan base, its definitely conflicted and likely to remain so.

The interesting thing about this situation,is the feeling of chaos with Sam seems to come from the fans in terms of being at the club it looks as if he has brought some stability to the club both from a playing and non playing perspective. Its pretty clear we arent the same basket case we were when he took over.

 

[MrGrumpy]

The reasons why he could see out his contract

1 It would save about 9m pay off of him and his backroom staff , we can't keep paying managers off.
2 He's brought in 2 good players already
3 He's done a good job having us around 6th place since he's been here, we conceded about 30 goals in the previous 10 games.
4 He's said he's going to trim the squad down,
5 He said the squad is too big and there are players holding the youngsters back, expect him to offload a few senior players
6 He said the players he brings in will be better than we have now so will be straight in the team, i'm taking that as no more signing youngsters, we have enough in the squad.
7 The players are publicly saying they are improving with him as the manager.

With all that in place why can't BS have us playing better football with HIS team and why can't we break the top 6 ?

Because no one taken one major point in consideration, he has 12 months left and won’t get a new contract so come Christmas the plays will start to down tools as that what players do and when he questions them they say...well you won’t be here next season so we don’t care.

Also keeping Allardyce will make the atmosphere more and more toxic, he’s not staying