Sam Allardyce

So, what next?

  • IN. Give him a chance and see what he can do?

    Votes: 79 8.3%

  • OUT. Thanks but no thanks. See Ya?

    Votes: 758 79.3%

  • As ever. Cheese on Toast

    Votes: 25 2.6%

  • Er, I am a bit scared of us Evertoning this right up.

    Votes: 94 9.8%
  • Total voters
    956
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devo85 said:
Your right about stability in management but don't forget that this was a panicked appointment. In the time it took between the first approach to Watford and the realisation that they were not going to budge in their stance the board were clearly unnerved by the dramatic downturn in form. They approached Allardyce with a short term view to cover them until the end of the season and he called their bluff wanting a longer contract. While this was going on they were trying again with Watford and the form was getting worse until eventually they had to go back to allardyce and compromise on an 18 month contract.

Now I don't now all this as absolute fact but it sure makes sense and fits in with what we know. My question is, does this feel like the stability your after if the board have hired a manager who was not their first choice and that 80% of the fans do not want here?

Also , like you say, for the sake of stability the board back him and he stays, where do you think we will be in 12 or 24 months? What direction do you see us going? Do you think we will have advanced in style of play or league position?

The average premiership manager spends 20 months in the job so I think it is far more important that the stability you desire is built into the structure of the club and it's playing style, recruitment philosophy and director of football. Set that framework in place and then hire the managers to fit into that framework.
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You are of course right with the trajectory mate, i dont think he was first choice at all, nor was he mine, he has exceeded my expectations though not on performances but on results. Look i think there is mitigation there, he didnt assemble this team, he has had to approach the situation with a remit of results over performances given the predicament. I have sympathy for him in the footballing context and circumstances if im honest. The board may well sack hi, but i dont think it would be on the basis of performance, i think it would be on popularity and that isnt a good decsion making process in my opinion.

It all depends of how you look at stability, if the club wasnt changing a DOF, and football dept and changes at board room i would have a lower threshold to a change, fact is probably will. Its not just Allardyce its the whole coaching tam that has got a tune out of a very limited squad so from a stability point of view, i think it would be good for the club to have him see out his contract. I think the players like the regime. They have respond with results. I agree if he was here next season performances need to improve, i think he is a good recruiter so i wouldnt have a problem with him guiding us through the summer. Fans dont like him, i get that, that will lead to peaks and troughs but ultimately guided by progress, i dont see that being different to be honest. For me there is a dangerous trend at Everton of the club bending to fan will, which is fickle and boom and bust.

I agree on 20 month manager, and philosophy is important - DOF etc. We are getting a new one, which is why i think there needs to be stability in the manager. Im not a massive Allardyce fan and he wouldn't have been my first choice. But he has done a good job has exceeded my expectation in results and looking at what the clubs needs now, im not so sure its a change in manager.

To answer your question he wants to play solid, direct way of playing and i believe he would recruit on that basis, i thin he trying to play that way but is trying to play with players who are used to possession based football - that is what they were recruited for. I believe if he stays thats who he ill recruit players to play that way. Very much Moyes stuff IMO.
 
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Neiler said:
You are of course right with the trajectory mate, i dont think he was first choice at all, nor was he mine, he has exceeded my expectations though not on performances beat on results. Look i think their is mitigation there, he assembled this team, he has had to approach the situation with a remit of results over performances given the predicament. I have sympathy for him in the footballing context and circumstances if im honest. The board may well sack hi, but i dont think it would be on the basis of performance, i think it would be on popularity and that isnt a good decsion making process in my opinion.

It all depends of how you look at stability, if the club wasnt changing a DOF, and football dept and changes at board room i would have a lower threshold to a change, fact is probably will. Its not just Allardyce its the whole coaching tam that has got a tune out of a very limited squad so from a stability point of view, i think it would be good for the club to have him see out his contract. I think the players like the regime. They have respond with results. I agree if he was here next season performances need to improve, i think he is a good recruiter so i wouldnt have a problem with him guiding us through the summer. Fans dont like him, i get that, that will lead to peaks and troughs but ultimately guided by progress, i dont see that being different to be honest. For me there is a dangerous trend at Everton of the club bending to fan will, which is fickle and boom and bust.

I agree on 20 month manager, and philosophy is important - DOF etc. We are getting a new one, which is why i think there needs to be stability in the manager. Im not a massive Allardyce fan and he wouldn't have been my first choice. But he has done a good job has exceeded my expectation in results and looking at what the clubs needs now, im not so sure its a change in manager.

To answer your question he wants to play solid, direct way of playing and i believe he would recruit on that basis, i thin he trying to play that way but is trying to play with players who are used to possession based football - that is what they were recruited for. I believe if he stays thats who he ill recruit players to play that way. Very much Moyes stuff IMO.
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It makes me sad and despondent for the future that many Evertonians think like this. We don’t deserve anything more than mediocrity
 

Neiler said:
I think its all well good people talking about ambition etc. Thats easy the truth is he has got us to our relative position as it has for almost 30 years. I think that argument is a bit of a cop out to be honest. Of course everyone would like Everton in the top 4 but we consistently havent done it is a third of a century. Not one appointment is going ot immediately change it, if people believe that they are fooling themselves, it will be incremental and based on building something if it is ever going to happen. Constantly changing the manager or dipping into a poor managirial market of low enough quality isn't going to help that trend IMO. The i want Everton be great argument and sack the manager and everything is ok, is very infantile for me mate. Arguably we have just been moving deck chairs around and staying 6th -8th at best for almost 30 years i dont see one appointment immediately changing that. Its boils down to people just not liking Allardyce in my opinion, its a personal thing.
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The personal element comes from his arrogance towards any criticism, despite winning sweet fa in 25 years.

Of course one decision doesn't change anything overnight. But making a horribly unambitious choice and then sticking with it for the sake of a false sense of stability, is the true cop out.

I'd rather try and fail than settle for average. With Allardyce we will never improve. With Allardyce we won't even get closer to getting there. That's not acceptable to me. It's not a cop out.

We had 12 years of stability and it got us nowhere ultimately. Close at times but never any cigar. Stability is a nonsense argument when there is nothing left worth preserving.
 
ToffeeTim said:
The personal element comes from his arrogance towards any criticism, despite winning sweet fa in 25 years.

Of course one decision doesn't change anything overnight. But making a horribly unambitious choice and then sticking with it for the sake of a false sense of stability, is the true cop out.

I'd rather try and fail than settle for average. With Allardyce we will never improve. With Allardyce we won't even get closer to getting there. That's not acceptable to me. It's not a cop out.

We had 12 years of stability and it got us nowhere ultimately. Close at times but never any cigar. Stability is a nonsense argument when there is nothing left worth preserving.
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What is your bottom line expectation with a new manager next year mate?

What is success and failure in real terms?
 

Eggs said:
..whilst most of us want a progressive, innovative and enlightened new Manager/DoF partnership, I do think it’s important not going overboard on the ante-Allardyce shouts. The bloke has done the job he was brought in to do, it can be argued that he has done better than expected given where we were after Southampton away.

Let the powers that be know the case for change, but hate is perhaps too strong a word to use for a man who achieved his goal in getting us safe.
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I hated him before he even came here Eggs, or at the very best had an intense dislike for the man. Not so much because of his football because I didn't think in a million years I'd have to endure it week in week out. But the man himself, his personality, his sense of entitlement and permanent chip on his shoulder. Even yesterday, he set the team up ultra defensively at home to a team who must have been nervous and have won 2 games in the last 22. But does he accept ANY responsibility for the poor performance?. No, he blames the two new lads coming into the team. He's an utter horror Eggs.
 
ToffeeTim said:
European qualification and a trophy, or at least a lengthy run in one.



Thought so.

Sigh.....
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Right, pretty much bog standard then.

On the other i dont see need the need to vilify or hate anyone connected to the club mate. Do you think anyone who doesnt feel that way or agrees with you opinion on subjects isnt valid. You seem very dismissive on anyone that doesnt fit the Sam abuse or Bill isnt evil narrative. I dont see the point we are all pulling in the same direction.
 
Neiler said:
Right, pretty much bog standard then.

On the other i dont see need the need to vilify or hate anyone connected to the club mate. Do you think anyone who doesnt feel that way or agrees with you opinion on subjects isnt valid. You seem very dismissive on anyone that doesnt fit the Sam abuse or Bill isnt evil narrative. I dont see the point we are all pulling in the same direction.
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Dismissive? You just said you enjoyed buzzing off the blue union?? Glass houses mate.

I'm challenging your narrative on an open forum. And you're challenging me. I don't see the issue.

I am never going to agree with Allardyce or Bill supporters, but I find it embarassing when I see posts like yours from genuine Evertonians who are actually saying to the rest of us to get back in our boxes. Know your place nonsense is a large reason why we are crap.
 

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