Sam Allardyce

[Frang]

Even more digraceful then, that we are still having to sell to buy

there honestly wouldn't be much of a difference between the incomings and outgoings, player wise, if it kenwright was owner still.

 

[Zatara]

He's 63 years old, he's not a new coach. His record in the Premier League is average, he's never won anything and yet you think he's the answer when all of the available evidence says he isn't. This is putting aside the type of football he plays and let's just say his ethics. Say goodbye at the end of the season and wish him well.

Do you not think he would change his style of play if he was appointed Real Madrid manager? All of his clubs were bottom level premier league sides who got relegated after he left which appears to show he is able to improve teams league positions.

Some are so judgemental, we are not going to be playing champaigne attacking football with our awful attacking players.

Give him a few weeks after we actually have a capable striker (hopefully Tosun) instead of marching round the forum with Sams head on stick because we have just lost at Anfield where we have not won in 18 years or whatever.

Im one of the biggest moaners on this forum but I’m not stupid and ignorant as to the position we found ourselves in, he’s steadied the ship and I feel comfortable with him here for now, NO reputable manager worth his salt wants to be here, not with this awful squad.

Silva seems to have wanted to be here lol

But, agreed I don't see what more a manager could have done other than perhaps get a draw yesterday and against Bournemouth.

Indeed.

That was far from the worst Everton performance at Anfield this century.

I hope Sam learns a lesson from it.

Constantly sitting back in games only invites extra pressure on your team and generally speaking, that pressure eventually tells.

I think it was @ToffeeTim said that attacking teams is also a way of defending against them.

Of course it is......many a military genius operated on the principle that the best form of defence is attack.

Obviously we are not geared for all out attack over ninety minutes but as we showed for a twenty minute spell versus United and in patches last night, we are more than capable of getting on the front foot and landing a few blows if our own.

But notice when we pushed up against them, their counter attacks were very close to taking us apart...we did well in defence and made some very good tackles. Its clear we lack a left back and as such cant organise the defence properly nor play a high line...

As a general rule successful clubs develop a style of play and appoint managers who are able work within that style and the squad they inherit. When you appoint a manager who doesn’t operate within your chosen method you are almost always faced with disruption to the squad and systems, which can often have a deleterious effect on the teams performance and position.
My argument with Allardyce is that his preferred style of play is limited and while it will give you mid table security it will never be good enough to trouble the top of the table which is where we , allegedly, aspire to be. This in turn means that any manager we appoint subsequently will be faced with the inherent need to adjust the squad with all the concurrent dangers of discontinuity and failure, and we end up back at square one.

How do you know what his style of play is? Its highly doubtful his tactics will be the same as at sunderland for example...different situations.

some people are lambasting allardyce for this turgid football, but as you say , how the hell was he going to get this lot playing like Barcelona, this is KOEMANS team, a team who we all witnessed playing shambolic, brainless football which was ending in 3/4/5 nil defeats.

I'm not an advocate of allardyce per se, but you have to give the man some credit for just stopping the rot and instilling some confidence.

lets see how the team perform after this window when he hopefully has got a couple of his type of players in.

don't judge him on past jobs, because we are not sunderland or crystal palace. far from it infact

Spot on.

Exactly.

Just look at the opinions based on last night. Lookman should start, Siggurdson needs to be number 10, DCL not good enough. On the flip side you've got Rooney (top goal scorer) DCL (top assists).

It's completely unbalanced full of inconsistent players, and the consistent ones usually are the expense of another. We've 5 under 23 players in the first team out playing £50mill worth of new signings.

Whoever comes in will still have the same problems as they're from top to bottom rather than tweaks here or there

The problem with Koeman is he went for players like Klaassen and Cuco who weren't needed and in fact would block davies and Kenny.

He Is an awful manager as I kept saying before we hired him,

What we should have done (and should do now) his be signing players to compliment the u23 players we have and make the team stronger than the sum of its parts...do that and hope the u23s reach their potential and we could have a very strong relatively cheap side.

 

[trueblue10]

there honestly wouldn't be much of a difference between the incomings and outgoings, player wise, if it kenwright was owner still.

So whats Moshiri's role as financial backer all about then?

 

[Barnfred 55]

I understand where you’re coming from mate but the money side is down to the incompetent owner/board. I would never have appointed him personally but don’t see any harm wishing him the best as long as it’s not at Goodison!

He'll be taking us to the cleaners in the same was way both Martinez and Koeman. Between the 3 we'll be paying compo in excess of £20m. That's a decent left back right there.

I agree it's down to incompetence of the board but I still can't give the managers a free pass on this I'm afraid.

 

[Frang]

Do you not think he would change his style of play if he was appointed Real Madrid manager? All of his clubs were bottom level premier league sides who got relegated after he left which appears to show he is able to improve teams league positions.




Silva seems to have wanted to be here lol

But, agreed I don't see what more a manager could have done other than perhaps get a draw yesterday and against Bournemouth.




But notice when we pushed up against them, their counter attacks were very close to taking us apart...we did well in defence and made some very good tackles. Its clear we lack a left back and as such cant organise the defence properly nor play a high line...



How do you know what his style of play is? Its highly doubtful his tactics will be the same as at sunderland for example...different situations.



Spot on.



The problem with Koeman is he went for players like Klaassen and Cuco who weren't needed and in fact would block davies and Kenny.

He Is an awful manager as I kept saying before we hired him,

What we should have done (and should do now) his be signing players to compliment the u23 players we have and make the team stronger than the sum of its parts...do that and hope the u23s reach their potential and we could have a very strong relatively cheap side.

to be fair the under 23's that have been drafted in have all made an impact. Holgate, Kenny, davies (not so much recently) DCL, lookman.. they haven't let us down when called on.

I would happily have our manager build a team around these youngsters.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

are we all saying we would have preferred Marco silva...

lol lol lol

cant defend for crap can they

And currently doing the perennial sinking faster than stone act.. Good luck hornets, we dodged the bullet on that one he would have Martinez mark 2.

 

[Frang]

So whats Moshiri's role as financial backer all about then?

him getting richer. blatantly obvious that one, surprised you had to ask

@davek

 

[kenada_blue]

Do you not think he would change his style of play if he was appointed Real Madrid manager? All of his clubs were bottom level premier league sides who got relegated after he left which appears to show he is able to improve teams league positions.




Silva seems to have wanted to be here lol

But, agreed I don't see what more a manager could have done other than perhaps get a draw yesterday and against Bournemouth.




But notice when we pushed up against them, their counter attacks were very close to taking us apart...we did well in defence and made some very good tackles. Its clear we lack a left back and as such cant organise the defence properly nor play a high line...



How do you know what his style of play is? Its highly doubtful his tactics will be the same as at sunderland for example...different situations.



Spot on.



The problem with Koeman is he went for players like Klaassen and Cuco who weren't needed and in fact would block davies and Kenny.

He Is an awful manager as I kept saying before we hired him,

What we should have done (and should do now) his be signing players to compliment the u23 players we have and make the team stronger than the sum of its parts...do that and hope the u23s reach their potential and we could have a very strong relatively cheap side.

Which is the point. For all the "we need to do this" there's always a problem in a certain position that stops us.

The defence is lacking fluidity due to personnel and Sam trying to find his best back 4.

The midfield doesn't have a link up CM just a group of safe ball winners. Rooney has been dropped in there.

The attack doesn't have a focal point and has disjointed wide threat.

When Sam says we need to keep a clean sheet to win a game, it's brutally honest because there's no middle ground. You go all out with an inconsistent attack or go defensive.

 

[banno]

With respect that is reductive reasoning. You cannot justify each poor managerial choice by the poor managerial choice which preceded it, the end result of that type of decision is to enter a descending spiral of mediocrity.
You have to break the dismal chain with a bold appointment. Something we have failed to do. Again!

I don't think we were in a position to make a bold appointment the way we were playing. Alladyce was brought in to stop the rot which I feel he has to an extent. Alladyce can steady the ship so we will be in a position to make a bold appointment. Basically we fell off the ladder and now we are back on the ladder thanks to Alladyce. Up to Alladyce to see if we can climb the ladder and if not then we get someone we feel can.

 

[jceverton]

Do you not think he would change his style of play if he was appointed Real Madrid manager? All of his clubs were bottom level premier league sides who got relegated after he left which appears to show he is able to improve teams league positions.




Silva seems to have wanted to be here lol

But, agreed I don't see what more a manager could have done other than perhaps get a draw yesterday and against Bournemouth.




But notice when we pushed up against them, their counter attacks were very close to taking us apart...we did well in defence and made some very good tackles. Its clear we lack a left back and as such cant organise the defence properly nor play a high line...



How do you know what his style of play is? Its highly doubtful his tactics will be the same as at sunderland for example...different situations.



Spot on.



The problem with Koeman is he went for players like Klaassen and Cuco who weren't needed and in fact would block davies and Kenny.

He Is an awful manager as I kept saying before we hired him,

What we should have done (and should do now) his be signing players to compliment the u23 players we have and make the team stronger than the sum of its parts...do that and hope the u23s reach their potential and we could have a very strong relatively cheap side.

He might modify his style of play, don’t think it would be anything major. Putting his style of football to one side I think it’s pretty much impossible to argue that he’s much above average as a manager and that’s going to get us nowhere.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

I really do despair at the people, who see that result at Anfield as some sort of moral victory or moral defeat.No wonder we haven't won a trophy in 23 (heading into 24) years with that sort of attitude.

 

[Cork Evertonian]

The lack of ambition and acceptance of mediocrity (at best) of some people on here is staggering

I think out all the main clubs in England Everton, Liverpool, Man City, Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Spurs.Only Everton would have fans, who are reasonably contented after going out of the FA Cup to one of their rivals.We are the only club, who would have fans saying give the manager another season, as a response to our last hope of a trophy this season going up in smoke.

Everton is a massive club, we are a sleeping giant, but some of our fans have the mentality of a Stoke or a West Brom supporter.Evertonians are a lot more happy to accept and tolerate failure and mediocrity, in comparison to supporters of our rival clubs.

 

[Kev50]

Yes regardless of how he gets on in the interim because we know how far he can take us based on the last 20 odd years. He’s not suddenly going to turn into a top manager at 63.

And what do you mean by top manager, win the league?

 

[Zatara]

Which is the point. For all the "we need to do this" there's always a problem in a certain position that stops us.

The defence is lacking fluidity due to personnel and Sam trying to find his best back 4.

The midfield doesn't have a link up CM just a group of safe ball winners. Rooney has been dropped in there.

The attack doesn't have a focal point and has disjointed wide threat.

When Sam says we need to keep a clean sheet to win a game, it's brutally honest because there's no middle ground. You go all out with an inconsistent attack or go defensive.

to be fair the under 23's that have been drafted in have all made an impact. Holgate, Kenny, davies (not so much recently) DCL, lookman.. they haven't let us down when called on.

I would happily have our manager build a team around these youngsters.

If we look at the squad as it is today...fast forward 2 years...

Remove the guys who cant get in the team (they will be sold)
Remove the guys close to retirement

We probably lack 6 players who need to be signed in the next 4 windows...with the u23s getting games and developing we could have a strong side.

He might modify his style of play, don’t think it would be anything major. Putting his style of football to one side I think it’s pretty much impossible to argue that he’s much above average as a manager and that’s going to get us nowhere.

Really? I think hes a very good manager based upon results at every clubs hes managed in the premier league...compared to their standing before/after he took over and the players at his disposal.

We don't know how he will do with more resources, better players and a chance to prove he is an elite manager.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

I don't think we were in a position to make a bold appointment the way we were playing. Alladyce was brought in to stop the rot which I feel he has to an extent. Alladyce can steady the ship so we will be in a position to make a bold appointment. Basically we fell off the ladder and now we are back on the ladder thanks to Alladyce. Up to Alladyce to see if we can climb the ladder and if not then we get someone we feel can.

I understand what your saying but my concern is that when and if we make that bold appointment the incoming manager will inherit a team unfit for purpose and will have to overhaul the team with all the inherent dangers of failure. Which worryingly is what appears to happen at most of Allardyce’s previous clubs.

 

[Zatara]

And what do you mean by top manager, win the league?

Save that sunderland side from relegation