2024/25 Sean Dyche - Sacked

[John from Bootle]

If we're content forever being a club that's just happy they stayed up, he's great.

I, for one, do not watch football in the hope we 'just stay up'.

Where's the enjoyment in that? May as well go watch darts instead.

But it's not about forever mate. It's about the here and now. Unless he gets Europe, and stays there, he's never gonna be here for the long haul -no manager is ever likely to be here for more than 5 years anyway imo - but that doesn't mean he's not right for now. Even those who don't rate him must surely admit that there's every likelihood his successor will be walking in to an easier job than the one Dyche inherited?

The football on Saturday was grim, I will say that, but it's not always that bad. I wish I could go and watch darts instead mate. Not speaking from experience or anything, but I reckon it's probably easier to kick heroin than it is to kick Everton.

I think back to that first season under Martinez, and how the work of one manager can help his predecessor. It's not the worst place for us to be in with a manager who has steadied the ship and appears to have the players on his side. We will get a new manager at some point, and hopefully he can kick us on again.

 

[GrandOldSte117]

I am surprised how bad they were when they came up with Kompany the following season again, after they smashed the championship having the best squad.

You can play possession based football in the championship, in fact, it's probably good to do so to get promoted. Brentford did this in the championship, and then, when promoted, Thomas Frank recognised that his job was to make Brentford competitive, so he swapped to a more direct style of play.

Kompany, used Burnley as a tool to promote a philosophy, Russell Martin doing similar at Southampton. They will not part from their philosophy, and it has and may get their teams relegated. However, it is good for their individual manager profiles and they may get 'bigger' jobs off of it, ie. Kompany to Bayern.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

The problems at this club are numerous, I don't believe there is anyone on this site that doesn't acknowledge that. In terms of not giving Dyche an inch, that's not a correct assertion on your part, literally today in a reply to you I stated that he did well keeping us up in that first season here. So, I agree, not everything is Dyche's fault. However, Dyche is responsible for how we line up, how we play and, ultimately, is responsible for our points total. Many, including yourself, laud him for his 48 points last season, fair enough, but you can't then have it the other way and say the dropped points this season are nothing to do with him. Either all the elements of the club, coaching staff, playing staff, administrative staff, are collectively responsible for our performances or they are not. It seems that those who are not critical of Dyche (to echo your own words) want to credit him with everything that goes right at the club but absolve him of everything that goes wrong. That's as illogical as those who won't "give him an inch".

There's obviously too much heat on this issue now, people's views are entrenched and there's unlikely to be anything that changes that. I'll also happily state that I never wanted Dyche here, I'd seen his Burnley side play many times and knew what he would do. I'll also confess that what I want from sport, and especially when I pay over a hundred quid for a day out, is to be entertained. I don't consider watching us play at the moment a fun day out. I also understand that others, presumably including those who set up and run an Everton fan forum, have more complex relationships with the club and so have different priorities. Fair enough. Just existing as a PL club seems like a dreadful way to exist but is all a manager like Dyche is capable of. Some will argue that just surviving is a means to an end and a short term goal but then argue that Dyche will have deserved another contract if he keeps us up. Dyche is a survival manager, he's not capable of anything else.

Can you clarify that bold?

 

[Gilbert..]

Lots of opinions.
I ask myself. If Dyche left Everton tomorrow would another top flight club even go near him?

 

[windymiller]

Can you clarify that bold?

I would only be guessing but I assume your attachment to the club is more like that of a family member, that your identity is more entwined with the club than mine. You literally give up a huge chunk of your life to run this site, after all. I was a season ticket holder a very long time ago and felt that way about the club but had to leave the area, had a family, developed other interests (I'm sure you also have other interests btw) and became less fanatical about the club. I still am and will always be a fan of the club but now I view following the club as a fun pass time and don't invest as much emotional capital as I used to but I understand that others haven't changed their relationship with the club. Maybe that makes me less qualified to comment, I don't know, but it probably changes what you want from and for the club.

 

[John from Bootle]

You can play possession based football in the championship, in fact, it's probably good to do so to get promoted. Brentford did this in the championship, and then, when promoted, Thomas Frank recognised that his job was to make Brentford competitive, so he swapped to a more direct style of play.

Kompany, used Burnley as a tool to promote a philosophy, Russell Martin doing similar at Southampton. They will not part from their philosophy, and it has and may get their teams relegated. However, it is good for their individual manager profiles and they may get 'bigger' jobs off of it, ie. Kompany to Bayern.

From a saints board...

The style of football and philosophy is [Poor language removed], boring AF to watch and is costing us points.......

All that poncing around af fhe back just stick laces through the ball and clear it in one......

What does passing it around the back actually achieve am I missing something here? Possession? Possession is going to keep us in this league is it?

 

[windymiller]

From a saints board...

Possession based football just for the sake of it has become a bit of a religion for some. I don't really get it, it's utterly tedious watching centre halves pass the ball back and forth to each other. That being said, 20% possession and low block defending is equally dull football to watch. Thankfully, there is an ocean of options in between.

 

[John from Bootle]

Possession based football just for the sake of it has become a bit of a religion for some. I don't really get it, it's utterly tedious watching centre halves pass the ball back and forth to each other. That being said, 20% possession and low block defending is equally dull football to watch. Thankfully, there is an ocean of options in between.

Well yeah, there is.

My concerns with this actual team are the following: Lack of pace. Lack of goals.

Lack of pace makes it difficult to play on the counter attack, and lack of goals makes it difficult to be a team that sets up to attack. Serious question - Pep Guardiola walks in and takes over this team. How many players do you see ending the season with more than 10 goals?

 

[windymiller]

Well yeah, there is.

My concerns with this actual team are the following: Lack of pace. Lack of goals.

Lack of pace makes it difficult to play on the counter attack, and lack of goals makes it difficult to be a team that sets up to attack. Serious question - Pep Guardiola walks in and takes over this team. How many players do you see ending the season with more than 10 goals?

Guardiola is probably a bad choice as he likes to spread goals around the team (pre-Haaland anyway) but I get your point. We do lack pace and goals and think that would remain a problem no matter who the manager was. That being said, Dyche teams never scored goals, he averages one goal per game over his entire career. Now, maybe that's because he's always had poor sides and poorly funded clubs, or that's a failing of his. I suspect it's a combination of both factors.

TL.DR? There would be very few 10 goal players but we would score more goals.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I would only be guessing but I assume your attachment to the club is more like that of a family member, that your identity is more entwined with the club than mine. You literally give up a huge chunk of your life to run this site, after all. I was a season ticket holder a very long time ago and felt that way about the club but had to leave the area, had a family, developed other interests (I'm sure you also have other interests btw) and became less fanatical about the club. I still am and will always be a fan of the club but now I view following the club as a fun pass time and don't invest as much emotional capital as I used to but I understand that others haven't changed their relationship with the club. Maybe that makes me less qualified to comment, I don't know, but it probably changes what you want from and for the club.

If I'm understanding this correctly, you’re drawing a correlation between emotional attachment to the club and how that can influence opinions on Dyche.

My own view would be that if this is accurate, those with a 'stronger attachment' might be more likely to respond emotionally or reactively, possibly calling for the manager's dismissal.

Fortunately, perhaps, I’ve moved even farther from the area than you, making me less susceptible to emotional attachment and able to retain the ability to make a balanced assessment of the manager.

As for this site, it would undoubtedly be busier and more successful if Everton won more games.

 

[goldfinchmule]

Lots of opinions.
I ask myself. If Dyche left Everton tomorrow would another top flight club even go near him?

Just the bottom feeders i would guess.

 

[Furey1878]

Lots of opinions.
I ask myself. If Dyche left Everton tomorrow would another top flight club even go near him?

A well ran club like Brentford for example, let's say Frank went to Man U tomorrow, they wouldn't as they have a really good set up that allows them to go for a coach that fits in well with what they want to do.

Clubs like Leicester, Forest or Wolves, however, they may have more potential FFP on the horizon, and will probably only care about survival and not spending much to achieve it. They would likely consider Dyche. Maybe they wouldn't go for him, but they would consider him based on what he's done for us.

I cannot stress this point enough to everyone, there isn't necessarily a good manager - bad manager scale. Some managers are good for certain situations/goals/play style/players/leagues.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Lots of opinions.
I ask myself. If Dyche left Everton tomorrow would another top flight club even go near him?

I often wonder the same point with most of our players - how many Premier League teams do the likes of Mykolenko, Young, Doucoure, Harrison and Gueye get in? That's half our 11 from the weekend. Branthwaite aside, does a single player on our bench from the weekend start for Premier League teams?

But yeah, I'd be very surprised if he ever gets a bigger club than Everton.

 

[windymiller]

If I'm understanding this correctly, you’re drawing a correlation between emotional attachment to the club and how that can influence opinions on Dyche.

My own view would be that if this is accurate, those with a 'stronger attachment' might be more likely to respond emotionally or reactively, possibly calling for the manager's dismissal.

Fortunately, perhaps, I’ve moved even farther from the area than you, making me less susceptible to emotional attachment and able to retain the ability to make a balanced assessment of the manager.

As for this site, it would undoubtedly be busier and more successful if Everton won more games.

No, not opinions on Dyche directly, opinions on priorities for the club itself. In this instance a survive at all costs approach to staying in the premier league. In my view, that is the main pro-Dyche position, that he somehow guarantees PL survival and so anything else that comes along with that is acceptable. I think that is short-sighted and the longer that you circle the drain the more likely you are to go down it. There are countless examples of clubs that started on a steady decline, then hovered just above relegation for several seasons and the vast majority of those clubs end up relegated, including those managed by guaranteed PL survivor Sean Dyche.

 

[John from Bootle]

Guardiola is probably a bad choice as he likes to spread goals around the team (pre-Haaland anyway) but I get your point. We do lack pace and goals and think that would remain a problem no matter who the manager was. That being said, Dyche teams never scored goals, he averages one goal per game over his entire career. Now, maybe that's because he's always had poor sides and poorly funded clubs, or that's a failing of his. I suspect it's a combination of both factors.

TL.DR? There would be very few 10 goal players but we would score more goals.

Yeah, point taken re Pep. Literally just picked him because he's the best at the moment, arguably.

The goals in this team is the biggest issue for me. I think that's one of the reasons he likes Doucoure. He's not gonna get loads, but past evidence suggests he's more likely to weigh in with goals than our other centre midfielders. Doucoure also helps with us being able to counter. He's not the quickest, but he has an ability to eat up a lot of ground with or without the ball. He can carry the ball well when he's got time and space like you get in the transitions or on the counter.

But yeah, back to the goals, I can't see DCL finishing on more than 12 this season, Mcneil on more than 10, Doucoure 7 and Ndiaye 10. After that our next top scorers will probably be Beto, Harrison and maybe Lindstrom? I'd like to mention Broja and Chermiti but we just need to wait and see on those I guess.