2024/25 Sean Dyche - Sacked

[hallamblue]

I think this point sometimes gets a bit confused to be honest. Personally I have absolutely no doubt that the players we have could play 'better' football - they're professionals who've made it to the top level, I don't think they literally can't pass the ball along the ground or whatever. The question is whether playing better football with these players would lead to better results, and that's what I'm not sure on. I can see why we do some of the things we do, I think it's possible (not definite, just possible) that we get more points over the course of a season playing the way we do than if we try to play more football and be more open. Hopefully the takeover means we never have to find out because we can get better players to go with a better a manager.

Playing better football with the eleven that Dyche picks would definitely be a bad idea, most of them have proven that under different managers. However, the newer players brought in by Thelwell may well be able to do it.

 

[Lob]

I mean that's how form tables work?

Missing the first 3 games out just because we lost them is absolutely ridiculous and done purely to make it look better and you know it. It is no skin off your nose to just present the full truth. It is Dyche who gets paid 5 million a year, not you. Just be honest and present the truth as it is.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I think this point sometimes gets a bit confused to be honest. Personally I have absolutely no doubt that the players we have could play 'better' football - they're professionals who've made it to the top level, I don't think they literally can't pass the ball along the ground or whatever. The question is whether playing better football with these players would lead to better results, and that's what I'm not sure on. I can see why we do some of the things we do, I think it's possible (not definite, just possible) that we get more points over the course of a season playing the way we do than if we try to play more football and be more open. Hopefully the takeover means we never have to find out because we can get better players to go with a better a manager.

Eliminating as much risk as possible in possession is not a bad strategy when you’re in the bottom half. Some of the stuff Southampton have been doing for example is ridiculous when the players don’t have the quality to do it and they’ll probably pay for that with their PL status, a price no fan of Everton would want to accept under any circumstance.

There’s times last night when Pickford and Tarkowski almost mess up just playing some basic passing round the back under little pressure. No one can tell me it’s a tactical thing that Pickford hits passes too hard and the touch of all the defenders or all the holding mids isn’t great. Most goals at the bottom are scored from transitions after mistakes and set pieces. Limiting these and maximising the opportunity for your own gets you points.

If we want a reality where we are bossing possession every game, playing out from the back, and can do so in a way that doesn’t see us ripped apart by counter attacks, then you’re looking at top 6 football and that is only happening with a completely different financial landscape, and squad quality, hopefully one Friedkin can provide, but the proof will be in recruitment and investment. It’s certainly not going to occur on a sell to buy cheap/loan policy for the last 5 seasons and the only positive net spend in the league for that period.

 

[barneygumble]

He felt somewhat more humble pre-game.

The penny dropped that tactics can be changed and tweaked.

Then we won 4-0, so it will be very interesting to see if he reverts to sort for Saturday.

That being said, Saturday probably suits how he'll want to play.

 

[Saint Domingo]

You are arguing that our team is better than the form?

I would argue that it's 50-50 whether anyone would come in and do better with the current resources, and any decline would be costly. I would also argue given more resources I wouldn't want Dyche in charge.

I mean that's how form tables work?

Arbitrary sample of 15 games last season is perfectly fine to reference. Full 38 game samples don’t count because it’s skewed by two purple patches.

This season an arbitrary sample of 1, 2, 3, 4 games is fine, but you can’t pick a sample of 10 games, and you also can’t wait and see what the full 38 looks like.

All jokes aside though the season is 38 games for a reason, we’ll see how many we have at the end vs the other teams and where that lands us.

 

[MikeH72]

You are arguing that our team is better than the form?

I would argue that it's 50-50 whether anyone would come in and do better with the current resources, and any decline would be costly. I would also argue given more resources I wouldn't want Dyche in charge.

I mean that's how form tables work?

We have 14 points after 14 games with the easiest fixtures in the whole league. Our next 4 fixtures are against all of the current top 4. Chances are we will be at well under 1 point per game by the time 19 fixtures have been played. Yes, personally I believe the players are better than that.

 

[nsno-chris]

I think we definitely need to play like that in most home games. It won't always work but there is enough there to get over 40 points and relatively comfortable safety.

The team is much better balanced with Mangala in midfield. He needs to play regularly, especially until Garner is fit again.

Couldn’t agree more Tim. That’s when the quality of the player argument will be more apparent. You push a team back for 90mins but don’t convert, then the manager can’t take any flack

You sit back and try to snatch games, which we’ve witnessed, then that’s awful game management

 

[twoblue]

Missing the first 3 games out just because we lost them is absolutely ridiculous and done purely to make it look better and you know it. It is no skin off your nose to just present the full truth. It is Dyche who gets paid 5 million a year, not you. Just be honest and present the truth as it is.

Im not hiding anything. I did present the truth... form table has us at midtable of the last 10 matches. First three games were a disaster... and we are still all claiming its a disaster... when in fact there has been a change in fortunes and not heading towards relegation. We are going to finish above the bottom three and below midtable.

I buy the footballs terrible and I also buy he is not the long term solution. But I will say it again... he has managed with remit of reducing wages, selling our best players and keeping us in the league. No other team has spent less then us in the last 5 years.

What kind of manager and results do you expect if every year our squad is valued less.

Im just looking at it unemotionally, cold facts. I want fluid football that you can enjoy watching, I want to be further up the table, I want a team to be proud of. Everton are not this team now. Sacking Dyche without sorting out investment first is daft because there is no way to guarantee it will be better whoever it is.

 

[wabisabi]

He felt somewhat more humble pre-game.

The penny dropped that tactics can be changed and tweaked.

Then we won 4-0, so it will be very interesting to see if he reverts to sort for Saturday.

That being said, Saturday probably suits how he'll want to play.

All of this would be perfectly reasonable, if the guy in question hadn't been in professional football management since 2007.

That's 17 wasted years before the dropping of that lucky penny.

 

[nsno-chris]

We did do that last year when we played we had a decent run after the points deduction and played some decent football up until the wolves game. I actually think with Mangala in the team, Broja and Chermeti returning to fitness and Tim and James Garner coming back we have a better options than last year. There are some holes in the squad and we all know where they are but whoever come in to manage us has platform with this group of players.

We did mate, then what happened?

The wolves game went belly up, he panicked and reverted to type. Deep lying, give nothing up and allow the opposition to have all the ball and we ended up going on one of the longest winless runs in our history

 

[Lob]

Im not hiding anything. I did present the truth... form table has us at midtable of the last 10 matches. First three games were a disaster... and we are still all claiming its a disaster... when in fact there has been a change in fortunes and not heading towards relegation. We are going to finish above the bottom three and below midtable.

I buy the footballs terrible and I also buy he is not the long term solution. But I will say it again... he has managed with remit of reducing wages, selling our best players and keeping us in the league. No other team has spent less then us in the last 5 years.

What kind of manager and results do you expect if every year our squad is valued less.

Im just looking at it unemotionally, cold facts. I want fluid football that you can enjoy watching, I want to be further up the table, I want a team to be proud of. Everton are not this team now. Sacking Dyche without sorting out investment first is daft because there is no way to guarantee it will be better whoever it is.

No you did not present the truth. You hid the first 3 games because they would have made the form look worse. Form is not based upon whatever point you decide is the most convenient. Either the last 3 or 4 games or all 14 games so far. Just present the picture as it is and people will think more of you.

 

[nsno-chris]

But I will say it again... he has managed with remit of reducing wages, selling our best players and keeping us in the league. No other team has spent less then us in the last 5 years.

Which “best” players has Sean Dyche lost mate, really interested to hear this.

Also, if he’s reduced wages then why did he give a 31 year old Abdoulaye Doucoure a £20k a week pay increase

 

[Sheedy's right knee.]

We did mate, then what happened?

The wolves game went belly up, he panicked and reverted to type. Deep lying, give nothing up and allow the opposition to have all the ball and we ended up going on one of the longest winless runs in our history

I thought to be fair after the city game the players looked leggy and that seemed to go into January but I agree mostly with that. My gripe is we have been worse this stage this season than we were last season and I haven’t seen any progress. He’s too obsessed with how we are without the ball when we should focusing on what we do when we have the football.

 

[MikeH72]

Im not hiding anything. I did present the truth... form table has us at midtable of the last 10 matches. First three games were a disaster... and we are still all claiming its a disaster... when in fact there has been a change in fortunes and not heading towards relegation. We are going to finish above the bottom three and below midtable.

I buy the footballs terrible and I also buy he is not the long term solution. But I will say it again... he has managed with remit of reducing wages, selling our best players and keeping us in the league. No other team has spent less then us in the last 5 years.

What kind of manager and results do you expect if every year our squad is valued less.

Im just looking at it unemotionally, cold facts. I want fluid football that you can enjoy watching, I want to be further up the table, I want a team to be proud of. Everton are not this team now. Sacking Dyche without sorting out investment first is daft because there is no way to guarantee it will be better whoever it is.

Will you be sure to update your form table after the next 4 games mert?

 

[Simon Buttle]

Im not hiding anything. I did present the truth... form table has us at midtable of the last 10 matches. First three games were a disaster... and we are still all claiming its a disaster... when in fact there has been a change in fortunes and not heading towards relegation. We are going to finish above the bottom three and below midtable.

I buy the footballs terrible and I also buy he is not the long term solution. But I will say it again... he has managed with remit of reducing wages, selling our best players and keeping us in the league. No other team has spent less then us in the last 5 years.

What kind of manager and results do you expect if every year our squad is valued less.

Im just looking at it unemotionally, cold facts. I want fluid football that you can enjoy watching, I want to be further up the table, I want a team to be proud of. Everton are not this team now. Sacking Dyche without sorting out investment first is daft because there is no way to guarantee it will be better whoever it is.

We had to reduce the wages though as we had a bunch of bang average tat on CL wages, I'm not sure what people don't understand about that. Every club has to sell players to stay within the rules of the league (moan about the rules all you want but thats how it is) We have also been building a state of the art new stadium the last few years and therefore were never going to be spending big on the first team other than a few token transfers here and there, again I don't understand why people didn't see this coming especially given the way the stadium was being financed with dodgy loans. Dyche knew exactly what he was signing up for when he joined hence his massive salary, but as a manager he really doesn't offer anymore than the bare basics when you see him over the course of a season or two, its ale house stuff at times.