2022/23 Sean Dyche

[Lanolin]

People still going on about him not making subs on monday is proper weird. I honestly think this is the first time in 30 years of going the game that I've ever heard the argument that we should have made subs because we were on top and causing them problems. It's absolutely fine to say that you think we should have rolled the dice but making out like it's weird or cowardly to decide that the players who were out there actually doing well should stay out there rather than be swapped for players who aren't any better than them on paper and have no real record of coming on as a sub and affecting games is seriously odd.

 

[ArtetaMoney]

People still going on about him not making subs on monday is proper weird. I honestly think this is the first time in 30 years of going the game that I've ever heard the argument that we should have made subs because we were on top and causing them problems. It's absolutely fine to say that you think we should have rolled the dice but making out like it's weird or cowardly to decide that the players who were out there actually doing well should stay out there rather than be swapped for players who aren't any better than them on paper and have no real record of coming on as a sub and affecting games is seriously odd.

They all looked goosed tbf and I don’t think bringing Gray on would’ve upset whatever system he was trying, too much.

If anything, it would have given us some extra pace and potentially another player to help McNeil on the break.

I can see why people were perplexed that he didn’t go for it.

 

[Lanolin]

They all looked goosed tbf and I don’t think bringing Gray on would’ve upset whatever system he was trying, too much.

If anything, it would have given us some extra pace and potentially another player to help McNeil on the break.

I can see why people were perplexed that he didn’t go for it.

I thought they looked goosed with 20/25 minutes to go and at that point was calling for a sub. After that I thought they got a second wind and were on top again. We were causing them problems with the way Iwobi was dropping into spaces and playing little triangles down that right hand side, and overloading on that flank was creating space on the other side for McNeil. Gray would have run at them more but not linked up in the same way (or at all if his other 50 odd appearances for us are anything to go off) so in my opinion it would have had a pretty big effect on how we played. Even so, like I said, I can totally get on board with people saying 'personally i'd have changed it' just not 'oh my god he's an absolute clown he cost us 2 points by not changing it' because I just don't see any reasonable basis for coming to that conclusion whatsoever. It may well have been worth twisting, but there's absolutely no way it was the glaringly obvious thing to do that would inevitably have meant we won, which is how many people are putting it across. Again, if we were struggling then i'd be agreeing 100% but we weren't, and I honestly don't think i've ever heard people claim that the best thing to do when doing well is change it until this week.

 

[ArtetaMoney]

I thought they looked goosed with 20/25 minutes to go and at that point was calling for a sub. After that I thought they got a second wind and were on top again. We were causing them problems with the way Iwobi was dropping into spaces and playing little triangles down that right hand side, and overloading on that flank was creating space on the other side for McNeil. Gray would have run at them more but not linked up in the same way (or at all if his other 50 odd appearances for us are anything to go off) so in my opinion it would have had a pretty big effect on how we played. Even so, like I said, I can totally get on board with people saying 'personally i'd have changed it' just not 'oh my god he's an absolute clown he cost us 2 points by not changing it' because I just don't see any reasonable basis for coming to that conclusion whatsoever. It may well have been worth twisting, but there's absolutely no way it was the glaringly obvious thing to do that would inevitably have meant we won, which is how many people are putting it across. Again, if we were struggling then i'd be agreeing 100% but we weren't, and I honestly don't think i've ever heard people claim that the best thing to do when doing well is change it until this week.

We were all calling for Iwobi to be brought off at HT and he ended up scoring the goal that won us a point, so I wouldn't get too caught up over what fans say on a football forum.

Personally, I think bringing Gray on would have helped us, especially had he brought Onana on at the same time and taken Duke and Gana off. But then it's all about opinions and we don't know what would have happened. I think Dyche gets so much stick for subs because he doesn't make them when it's obvious to others that we need it, it'll be something that will always be brought up as he very rarely uses his subs.

 

[Lanolin]

We were all calling for Iwobi to be brought off at HT and he ended up scoring the goal that won us a point, so I wouldn't get too caught up over what fans say on a football forum.

Personally, I think bringing Gray on would have helped us, especially had he brought Onana on at the same time and taken Duke and Gana off. But then it's all about opinions and we don't know what would have happened. I think Dyche gets so much stick for subs because he doesn't make them when it's obvious to others that we need it, it'll be something that will always be brought up as he very rarely uses his subs.

It's just a narrative that's building that I don't like. People have decided they don't like Dyche and so he's getting criticised for all sorts that really isn't a big deal. He's a long way from perfect and wouldn't have been on my shortlist to manage us but the way he's being made out to be incompetent for making what are quite clearly reasonable decisions is a bit much for me. We're going down because the last useless idiot we had in charge took 1 point from home games against Forest, Leicester, Southampton and Wolves but people want to make out like it's actually because we didn't bring Demarai Gray on in an away game that we drew.

 

[MikeH72]

It's just a narrative that's building that I don't like. People have decided they don't like Dyche and so he's getting criticised for all sorts that really isn't a big deal. He's a long way from perfect and wouldn't have been on my shortlist to manage us but the way he's being made out to be incompetent for making what are quite clearly reasonable decisions is a bit much for me. We're going down because the last useless idiot we had in charge took 1 point from home games against Forest, Leicester, Southampton and Wolves but people want to make out like it's actually because we didn't bring Demarai Gray on in an away game that we drew.

Giving Michael Keane a run in the side and conceding 2 goals per game through his mistakes as a result is going to relegate us as much as Lampard losing some home games.

 

[Neiler]

I like him.

 

[Lanolin]

Giving Michael Keane a run in the side and conceding 2 goals per game through his mistakes as a result is going to relegate us as much as Lampard losing some home games.

It's not though is it? That's just a rank bad take. As I said yesterday, we'd conceded 16 in the last 9 that Coady played so if you actually look at it with some context instead of pretending it's a useful stat in isolation then the difference in goals conceded isn't actually particularly noteworthy, but i get that using context and thinking about things can be difficult so memeworthy stuff will win out in the main.

 

[Bob Elstone]

The lack of subs and particularly gray was mind boggling in a must win game.

 

[Billy Dean]

Thought the Leicester game saw us back to the level of performance we'd shown up to and including the Spurs the game. I think that's the best we can hope for with this group of players.

 

[kenada_blue]

They all looked goosed tbf and I don’t think bringing Gray on would’ve upset whatever system he was trying, too much.

If anything, it would have given us some extra pace and potentially another player to help McNeil on the break.

I can see why people were perplexed that he didn’t go for it.

Doucoure wasn't doing anything for 20mins and we started to play on the counter. The only one running was McNeil.

Gray could've and should've come on

 

[brieverton]

The winless run we are on, I'm a little disappointed with that when you consider Gracia won 3 of his 11 in charge.

But he is managing under the most difficult of circumstances.

It's fine margins, maybe very fine when it's down to a few teams that are this poor. The Fulham game will probably turn out to be pivotal to our fate. It is what it is now.

 

[MikeH72]

It's not though is it? That's just a rank bad take. As I said yesterday, we'd conceded 16 in the last 9 that Coady played so if you actually look at it with some context instead of pretending it's a useful stat in isolation then the difference in goals conceded isn't actually particularly noteworthy, but i get that using context and thinking about things can be difficult so memeworthy stuff will win out in the main.

Ok. Playing a centre back that’s making individual errors that lead to goals every single game is having no impact on us being relegated.

Why are you cherry picking the last 9 that Coady played anyway? And how many of those goals was he personally responsible for? Have you looked into this seeing as we must apply context?

 

[Lanolin]

Ok. Playing a centre back that’s making individual errors that lead to goals every single game is having no impact on us being relegated.

I didn't say that though? Keane hasn't been playing well recently, I think he should now be dropped. Coady also wasn't playing well prior to being dropped and has shown nothing either in his time here or his career as a whole to suggest that him playing would have led to us getting better results. That's the point being made here, not that Dyche isn't making any mistakes and I completely agree with all of his decisions, just that they're not the totally outrageous calls that people are pretending they are. We've conceded at least 2 goals in 4 of our last 6 games. That's bad, it's worth discussing, i's on the manager to find a way to stop it etc, absolutely no argument there. But then we'd also conceded at least 2 goals in 7 of the previous 8 games before he took over, so making out like it's only because of him and his decision to bring Keane back in is ridiculous.

EDIT - I've just seen your edit. I'm not 'cherry picking' the last 9, it's just the logical thing to do surely? The figure being bandied about for Keane is how many goals conceded in the last 9 games he's played, so i looked at the last 9 played by the man people were saying should replace him. I know I said I understood thinking was hard but I thought you might be able to manage to work that one out.

 

[MikeH72]

I didn't say that though? Keane hasn't been playing well recently, I think he should now be dropped. Coady also wasn't playing well prior to being dropped and has shown nothing either in his time here or his career as a whole to suggest that him playing would have led to us getting better results. That's the point being made here, not that Dyche isn't making any mistakes and I completely agree with all of his decisions, just that they're not the totally outrageous calls that people are pretending they are. We've conceded at least 2 goals in 4 of our last 6 games. That's bad, it's worth discussing, i's on the manager to find a way to stop it etc, absolutely no argument there. But then we'd also conceded at least 2 goals in 7 of the previous 8 games before he took over, so making out like it's only because of him and his decision to bring Keane back in is ridiculous.

I’d suggest that Coady has shown me plenty throughout his career to suggest he is a better player than Michael Keane. Yerry Mina has shown me MUCH more to suggest that he is a better player, albeit a complete crock and a liability fitness wise. So it’s not as if the manager doesn’t have options. As I said, find out how many individual mistake Coady made that led to goals, I can only think of the Anfield one myself.

The first half of the season under the worst manager in the league, we were better defensively than we have been under Dyche. Pretty much everyone was saying that our CB’s and Pickford were keeping us in games and earning us points on their own. It’s a complete rewriting of history to say that Coady has been terrible all season.