Should he be sacked

[BlueHutch]

Four matches shouldn’t really influence this. He’s been here for plenty of time and he’s managed at this level for close to a decade. There is plenty of evidence already to make a determination on what he can and can’t do.

Sure, but he kept us up last season. And he might this season. Which currently is our aim. I wish it wasn't but that's the reality.

I don't want him as a manager but this is the situation we're currently in.

 

[TheBigIguana]

Sure, but he kept us up last season. And he might this season. Which currently is our aim. I wish it wasn't but that's the reality.

I don't want him as a manager but this is the situation we're currently in.

A real manager would not be aiming for 17th this season

 

[BlueHutch]

A real manager would not be aiming for 17th this season

Who says he is?

 

[The binman chronicles]

I don't know about others but I'm taking that winless run last season in to consideration. It's not like he/we haven't had "previous".

Then we won 5 home games on the bounce. Look up when we last did that and that is newer data to crunch than the winless run.

FWIW I don't think he's a great manager and I have my doubts if he'll be here at the end of the season, but 2 games in with a patched up side is not the time to panic. That comes later. If we are 10 points adrift of Ipswich, Southampton and Leicester who we know will be deducted 8 points at least, then I could understand some of the vocal fans. Way too early for that now, we have tried jettisoning all our managers and all it gave us is a diminishing budget (& therefore points deductions) and even more of a jumbled, dysfunctional squad. What we need to do is pull in the same direction and hope he turns it around, which he has done up until now. If he doesn't then at the right time we can say our goodbyes.

We used to laugh about Watford firing their gaffers left, right and centre but it appears people think that's the best way forward. Without an owner or a budget, kicking off now is the equivalent of someone setting fire to their kitchen because they don't like it, but they don't have insurance or cash to do anything with it afterwards. As they sit in a burnt-out, smelly shell of a room, eating their cereal, they probably start to realise they've done more harm than good here.

 

[matty1878]

Then we won 5 home games on the bounce. Look up when we last did that and that is newer data to crunch than the winless run.

FWIW I don't think he's a great manager and I have my doubts if he'll be here at the end of the season, but 2 games in with a patched up side is not the time to panic. That comes later. If we are 10 points adrift of Ipswich, Southampton and Leicester who we know will be deducted 8 points at least, then I could understand some of the vocal fans. Way too early for that now, we have tried jettisoning all our managers and all it gave us is a diminishing budget (& therefore points deductions) and even more of a jumbled, dysfunctional squad. What we need to do is pull in the same direction and hope he turns it around, which he has done up until now. If he doesn't then at the right time we can say our goodbyes.

We used to laugh about Watford firing their gaffers left, right and centre but it appears people think that's the best way forward. Without an owner or a budget, kicking off now is the equivalent of someone setting fire to their kitchen because they don't like it, but they don't have insurance or cash to do anything with it afterwards. As they sit in a burnt-out, smelly shell of a room, eating their cereal, they probably start to realise they've done more harm than good here.

 

[The binman chronicles]

The bar is ten years of being the same crap manager. Idk why people think this is a two game induced panic. Where we’re going is an entirely predictable trajectory that could have been seen the second Dyche was brought in.

That's your opinion, but it's wrong. If we survived with less points than the Bournemouth last day season ending fiasco then you might have a point.

Your basically saying if we get a new manager in then we will be alright. Just when our stock is lowest and we have less money to spend than at any point in those years...hence the pool of managers getting weaker and weaker as time went on. Do you think swapping managers has helped or hinder our progress?

All the outside world will see is a fanbase in revolt and demand to sack a manager two games into a season after getting nearly 50 the season before. How many managers are queuing up for that, other than to take the money and run that is. We are seeing the strain and cracks in Dyche, just imagine what that would do to a less self assured person.

I am quite happy getting Moyes in if Dyche fails, but we don't want to do that too early, we want to show that we give the correct amount of time like a well run business should. That means everyone would be in agreement we needed to go in a new direction and be united by the new manager. It also gives less of the season to navigate with our current players and if things are still bad Nov/Dec time then it's not too far from the window, where a decision can be made to say lose a Branthwaite to fund a squad rebuild. Get rid now and you run the risk of you get a new manager bounce, let's say 9 points in quick succession, but bugger all thereafter. Then we are already on the back of the new man before it gets anywhere near the window opening and then things could get REALLY ugly, fast.

 

[TheBigIguana]

That's your opinion, but it's wrong. If we survived with less points than the Bournemouth last day season ending fiasco then you might have a point.

Your basically saying if we get a new manager in then we will be alright. Just when our stock is lowest and we have less money to spend than at any point in those years...hence the pool of managers getting weaker and weaker as time went on. Do you think swapping managers has helped or hinder our progress?

All the outside world will see is a fanbase in revolt and demand to sack a manager two games into a season after getting nearly 50 the season before. How many managers are queuing up for that, other than to take the money and run that is. We are seeing the strain and cracks in Dyche, just imagine what that would do to a less self assured person.

I am quite happy getting Moyes in if Dyche fails, but we don't want to do that too early, we want to show that we give the correct amount of time like a well run business should. That means everyone would be in agreement we needed to go in a new direction and be united by the new manager. It also gives less of the season to navigate with our current players and if things are still bad Nov/Dec time then it's not too far from the window, where a decision can be made to say lose a Branthwaite to fund a squad rebuild. Get rid now and you run the risk of you get a new manager bounce, let's say 9 points in quick succession, but bugger all thereafter. Then we are already on the back of the new man before it gets anywhere near the window opening and then things could get REALLY ugly, fast.

I'm actually not saying this. There are bad managers and there are managers who could have bigger downsides. But it's also not reality to suggest a PL club can't hire from outside a selection of managers consisting of a few tried and true members of the good old boys club. It isn't Dyche, Moyes, Sam, Warnock or nothing. Bournemouth attracted Iraola as an example, and regardless of where that goes that's one of the better young managers in Spain willing to jump to a team with absolutely no assurances of playing PL football long term. We get into this false idea of there not being options all too willingly and it enables this acceptance of total crap.

You are right, it is very hard to sack a manager after two games and not look dumb. Which is why he should have just been sacked in May. Or May 2023. Because again we have ten years of evidence of what we were getting and what it could and could not do. What it can do is sometimes keep you up. What it cannot do is get you to a point where you aren't starting a season with relegation as a possible outcome. And that is what they aim really needs to be. Yes staying up, but we've as you pointed out done that more comfortably season over season so it should now be not even entertaining that. And yet we are, and we were before these two disasters. That's because of who is managing the team as much as it is the financials imo. The money being tight makes it hard, but it doesn't make it impossible. What has made it impossible is having a manager who cannot do it.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I'm actually not saying this. There are bad managers and there are managers who could have bigger downsides. But it's also not reality to suggest a PL club can't hire from outside a selection of managers consisting of a few tried and true members of the good old boys club. It isn't Dyche, Moyes, Sam, Warnock or nothing. Bournemouth attracted Iraola as an example, and regardless of where that goes that's one of the better young managers in Spain willing to jump to a team with absolutely no assurances of playing PL football long term. We get into this false idea of there not being options all too willingly and it enables this acceptance of total crap.

You are right, it is very hard to sack a manager after two games and not look dumb. Which is why he should have just been sacked in May. Or May 2023. Because again we have ten years of evidence of what we were getting and what it could and could not do. What it can do is sometimes keep you up. What it cannot do is get you to a point where you aren't starting a season with relegation as a possible outcome. And that is what they aim really needs to be. Yes staying up, but we've as you pointed out done that more comfortably season over season so it should now be not even entertaining that. And yet we are, and we were before these two disasters. That's because of who is managing the team as much as it is the financials imo. The money being tight makes it hard, but it doesn't make it impossible. What has made it impossible is having a manager who cannot do it.

All for a progressive manager and perhaps one we can take a risk on, but we have to be in the right position as a club to be able to take that chance. They need a preseason and a budget that will enable them to get something resembling their own players. Else we are asking them to perform miracles with the same old that have thrown numerous people under the bus. Get it wrong and that trap door will open for us. If we do everything correctly, then if it all went totally South as per usual with our gambles, then there is scope to replace and still have funds for the new, new guy also.

Dyche so far is showing exactly what has happened during his tenure, we are capable of looking utterly rubbish and go on runs where we don't get wins, but also capable of purple patches. We need someone to get 40+ points this season to get us into the new season as a PL club and with any luck the increased revenue and a new owner in place allows us to go after someone with a bit more about them. Imo Dyche (or Moyes later) is still the best person for that kind of job under these current extreme conditions.

 

[TheBigIguana]

All for a progressive manager and perhaps one we can take a risk on, but we have to be in the right position as a club to be able to take that chance. They need a preseason and a budget that will enable them to get something resembling their own players. Else we are asking them to perform miracles with the same old that have thrown numerous people under the bus. Get it wrong and that trap door will open for us. If we do everything correctly, then if it all went totally South as per usual with our gambles, then there is scope to replace and still have funds for the new, new guy also.

Dyche so far is showing exactly what has happened during his tenure, we are capable of looking utterly rubbish and go on runs where we don't get wins, but also capable of purple patches. We need someone to get 40+ points this season to get us into the new season as a PL club and with any luck the increased revenue and a new owner in place allows us to go after someone with a bit more about them. Imo Dyche (or Moyes later) is still the best person for that kind of job under these current extreme conditions.

I think the first paragraph really makes the case for why he should've gone at the end of last year. We did some business this year and could've been on our way to what a new manager wanted. The preseason could have actually been useful with a manager who intended to use it.

 

[Magus]

That's your opinion, but it's wrong. If we survived with less points than the Bournemouth last day season ending fiasco then you might have a point.

Your basically saying if we get a new manager in then we will be alright. Just when our stock is lowest and we have less money to spend than at any point in those years...hence the pool of managers getting weaker and weaker as time went on. Do you think swapping managers has helped or hinder our progress?

All the outside world will see is a fanbase in revolt and demand to sack a manager two games into a season after getting nearly 50 the season before. How many managers are queuing up for that, other than to take the money and run that is. We are seeing the strain and cracks in Dyche, just imagine what that would do to a less self assured person.

I am quite happy getting Moyes in if Dyche fails, but we don't want to do that too early, we want to show that we give the correct amount of time like a well run business should. That means everyone would be in agreement we needed to go in a new direction and be united by the new manager. It also gives less of the season to navigate with our current players and if things are still bad Nov/Dec time then it's not too far from the window, where a decision can be made to say lose a Branthwaite to fund a squad rebuild. Get rid now and you run the risk of you get a new manager bounce, let's say 9 points in quick succession, but bugger all thereafter. Then we are already on the back of the new man before it gets anywhere near the window opening and then things could get REALLY ugly,

I don't like to see managerial churn and agree it can backfire, but what other option is there with a manager who is basically absolving himself of responsibility?

I admit I have never rated Dyche and I think he has been lucky in the outcomes over his time here. I don't see a leader who inspires confidence or stability, or even loyalty from the players. I am sick of seeing and listening to him tbh and I suspect some of the playing staff are too, leading to the kind of half-arsed performances which have become the norm.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I don't like to see managerial churn and agree it can backfire, but what other option is there with a manager who is basically absolving himself of responsibility?

I admit I have never rated Dyche and I think he has been lucky in the outcomes over his time here. I don't see a leader who inspires confidence or stability, or even loyalty from the players. I am sick of seeing and listening to him tbh and I suspect some of the playing staff are too, leading to the kind of half-arsed performances which have become the norm.

There are reasons for the funk we find ourselves in. I've gone in detail in other threads and I don't want to rehash again, but the headlines are injuries, the DCL situation that reminds me of the Lescott one. It's like a boil that needs lancing. You can put Holgate, Keane and Maupay in a similar but less important box.

We won 5 out of 8 at the back end of the season and should have actually gotten a result away to Arsenal without corrupt refereeing. We should have been winning against Brighton but for hideous finishing and could have been back in it had the penalty stood. The absolute state of our support that have fallen to bits over two games is unbelievable really. One was a near enough guaranteed defeat given what we could field!

I've said in the Dyche thread that it's an embarrassment him making excuses and it just gives the players an easy way out before the game starts. But it's equally an embarrassment turning on the manager when we've gone through many iterations and the ones that have tried to 'play' have all failed. This is when we had better players!

I'm sure this is the last season of Dyche whether he goes at the start or at the end, but if we turn on the team we are actively trying to relegate ourselves and people need to decide do they want to play 'nice' football, leaving huge gaps at the back like when Lampard was here and go down to the championship to rebuild and bed in that style OR we can make a meal of it sure, but likely we stay ahead of the few teams we need to and get to the new stadium as a PL side.

 

[18efc78]

If the bar for being sacked is two games at the start of a season, it's very possible we are never having a manager get more than 1 year here.

I hate how modern football has managed to cultivate the idea a club is in crisis after a couple of games to garner clickbait headlines and the fans are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

It's not the 2 defeats, it's the manner of them, two tight defeats where we've played well I wouldn't be concerned, but two drubbings and sticking with tried and trusted failures is completely different

 

[The binman chronicles]

It's not the 2 defeats, it's the manner of them, two tight defeats where we've played well I wouldn't be concerned, but two drubbings and sticking with tried and trusted failures is completely different

I understand that but had we done the opposite and smashed them both I wouldn't be thinking we are going to get CL football. Two results under those conditions does not give a sample size to say it's always going to be this way.

Had we now been at game 5/6 and it's still happening then I think I would be getting to that level. Mind you there are games in the next few where we are going to take beatings. It puts a lot of pressure on Saturday to get something to release a bit of it.

 

[Toffeepot]

All for a progressive manager and perhaps one we can take a risk on, but we have to be in the right position as a club to be able to take that chance. They need a preseason and a budget that will enable them to get something resembling their own players

Palace were 5 pts from safety when they brought in Glasner which was a massive change in style

 

[The binman chronicles]

Palace were 5 pts from safety when they brought in Glasner which was a massive change in style

Take a step back and look at situation throughly, Palace had a core group of decent and quick players. They have a stable ownership structure, their fans expectations are just to be a PL team. It kind of gives anyone coming in a free hit unless they are truly out of their depth (FdB).

We do not have the players to go at teams and dominate the possession, when that happens (Fulham and Wolves to name two at home last year) we don't take our chances, eventually run out of ideas and hope and more often than not take a sucker punch at the other end.

If I were an opposition manager with an iffy team, I would say let Everton have the ball and we'll play on the counter. Get a progressive manager who wants possession and that's what will happen.