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Should Martinez be sacked? (Post-Hull poll)

Should Martinez be sacked

  • Yes

    Votes: 294 36.6%

  • No

    Votes: 509 63.4%
  • Total voters
    803
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
I really do believe that this season is a blip and last season was the real Martinez.

No denying he's made a lot of questionable decisions this season, and it's completely reasonable and fair that he's coming under fire and under a lot of pressure. I don't really know what's going on at the minute, clearly something isn't right behind the scenes but I do believe we'll get through this and I have a lot of hope for next season, providing Martinez has a decent kitty to utilise in the summer as the squad needs a bit of an overhaul.
 
potato said:
the real question is why shouldn't martinez be sacked

is 21 points from 20 games an acceptable return for a man who has been given more money to spend than moyes and signed our most expensive player...a striker yet he is failing to score consistently.

is it acceptable to lose 4 games in a row in the league

is it acceptable that we have gone from a team who beat hull 2-0 last season to a team who lost 2-0 to them this season

is it acceptable that we couldn't beat a recently promoted leicester city on the first day of the season given that their biggest signing of the season was a brighton player

is it acceptable that we blew a 2-0 lead against arsenal with 10 minutes to play

is it acceptable that we conceded 6 goals at home to chelsea

is it acceptable to lose at home to crystal palace, a team who are so bad they have just sacked their manager

is it acceptable that we had no fight in our carling cup match against swansea and got raped 3-0 without swansea even moving out of 2nd gear

is it acceptable that we performed like we didn't even care about the derby and that a last minute thunderbolt strike by jagielka in an otherwise uneventful derby saved his butt

is it acceptable that up until the penalty we had failed to register a single attempt at goal against a poor united side at old trafford in the first half which was emphasised by baines penalty miss.

is it acceptable that we failed to score at home against swansea?

is it acceptable that we couldn't salvage anything against tottenham despite taking the lead?

is it acceptable that we could only draw at home to hull?

is it acceptable that we capitulated and crumbled against southampton and let them bum us to victory?

is it acceptable to have only scored in 2 out of the last 7 games?

is it acceptable to lose at home to stoke?

is it acceptable to lose against newcastle after taking the lead?

is it acceptable for us to have the second worst defence in the league?

is it acceptable that we have scored the same amount of goals as spurs who are 5th yet we are 13th and yet are 13 points behind them?

answer me this...

moyes was particularly painful to watch at time, but he did not let us rot, we may have lost 2-0 to man utd one week but would follow it up with a 2-1 win against a fulham or a norwich the following week.
Click to expand...

Actually, we also lost four on the bounce under Moyes. And we finished a season one place above the relegation places. So it's not like having a mini-crisis in a season is some kind of new thing that only Martinez is guilty of. It happens to most teams at some point, outside the mega-money sides who are in a special category. One of Martinez's problems is that he raised expectations so much with last season, so now some people like to think of Everton as a top-four challenger, with anything less a failure. But the plain truth is (with the exception of 2004-5 and last season), since the inception of the Premier League, we have not been a top four team. We've been an upper-mid table side. I wish we weren't but it takes money, and Martinez has had to rely on sales and wheeler-dealing just Moyes did to progress the squad (with the exception of Lukaku, though he's funded like multiple lower-priced signings).
Viewed in that light, are we so far from the ordinary cycle of ups and downs that come in a season? I'm not so sure. Sure, it's bad. It might get worse. And no one is immune from criticism. But it's not like the present predicament is some kind of unknown hell, that requires a special kind of indignation.
I say give Martinez to the end of the season and then review things.
 
potato said:
the real question is why shouldn't martinez be sacked

is 21 points from 20 games an acceptable return for a man who has been given more money to spend than moyes and signed our most expensive player...a striker yet he is failing to score consistently.

is it acceptable to lose 4 games in a row in the league

is it acceptable that we have gone from a team who beat hull 2-0 last season to a team who lost 2-0 to them this season

is it acceptable that we couldn't beat a recently promoted leicester city on the first day of the season given that their biggest signing of the season was a brighton player

is it acceptable that we blew a 2-0 lead against arsenal with 10 minutes to play

is it acceptable that we conceded 6 goals at home to chelsea

is it acceptable to lose at home to crystal palace, a team who are so bad they have just sacked their manager

is it acceptable that we had no fight in our carling cup match against swansea and got raped 3-0 without swansea even moving out of 2nd gear

is it acceptable that we performed like we didn't even care about the derby and that a last minute thunderbolt strike by jagielka in an otherwise uneventful derby saved his butt

is it acceptable that up until the penalty we had failed to register a single attempt at goal against a poor united side at old trafford in the first half which was emphasised by baines penalty miss.

is it acceptable that we failed to score at home against swansea?

is it acceptable that we couldn't salvage anything against tottenham despite taking the lead?

is it acceptable that we could only draw at home to hull?

is it acceptable that we capitulated and crumbled against southampton and let them bum us to victory?

is it acceptable to have only scored in 2 out of the last 7 games?

is it acceptable to lose at home to stoke?

is it acceptable to lose against newcastle after taking the lead?

is it acceptable for us to have the second worst defence in the league?

is it acceptable that we have scored the same amount of goals as spurs who are 5th yet we are 13th and yet are 13 points behind them?

answer me this...

moyes was particularly painful to watch at time, but he did not let us rot, we may have lost 2-0 to man utd one week but would follow it up with a 2-1 win against a fulham or a norwich the following week.
Click to expand...

Mate you make it sound like all of those things that you list are a divine right of ours.

Players are people. Just like you and I they have moments where confidence is lacking. It happened to Utd last year, City had a wobble last year also and won the league.

Do you think Chelsea find it "acceptable" that they lost to Newcastle or Spurs? Probably not but it doesn't change the fact that they are the best team in the country.

Martinez deserves to be under pressure, no question. Our managers position is a big job in English football and we should be doing better. He should be given ample opportunity to turn it round though as we have seen what a fully fit and confident side under his stewardship can achieve. He shouldn't be sacked just because the results have cost you have a few quid on accumulators.
 
It's funny though isn't it?

Only at the start of this season all the press, and several posters on here, were convinced that RM was too good for Everton and it was only a matter of time before he took on a 'big' job.

Form temporary/ class permanent anyone?
 
MassBlue said:
I say give Martinez to the end of the season and then review things.
Click to expand...

I want Roberto to stay but I think it is fast coming to the point where the situation will have to be reviewed on a match by match basis.

If this rot continues for another half dozen games then it really will be crunch time.

We might not be able to afford the luxury of waiting until the end of the season.

Certainly if the worst comes to the worst, I for one would not expect Bobby to still be in charge the day the trap door opens.

A change would have had to have been made before that, when things were going from bad to even worse....otherwise we are going to go down without a fight, playing lacklustre, passionless crab ball.

The type of football, BTW, which will not bring you back up from the Championship especially as all the better younger players will ship out in the summer.

Because it is not the results which are scaring me as much as the seemingly fanatical belief that football must only be played one way and that it is better to lose playing that way than rolling your sleeves up and grinding out ugly wins.

What we are doing now palpably isn't working.

A change has got to come on the field and it needs to come quickly.

And if it doesn't, then a change will need to be made off the field, IMO.
 

MassBlue said:
One of Martinez's problems is that he raised expectations so much with last season, so now some people like to think of Everton as a top-four challenger, with anything less a failure. But the plain truth is (with the exception of 2004-5 and last season), since the inception of the Premier League, we have not been a top four team. We've been an upper-mid table side.
Click to expand...

Yeah but we finished 5th last year, and it wasn't the first or even second time we finished 5th in the last decade.

I mean you're right that we don't finish 4th as a matter of course, but we also didn't do that last year.

And people aren't panicking because they think we won't finish 5th again this season, people are panicking because they think we might get relegated. I think they're wrong to think that, but this isn't people being spoiled and expecting something that can't be delivered. This is people who would be quite happy to finish 17th if that could be guaranteed.

I'll buy a lot of defences for martinez. But the one where it's our problem for expecting too much having been so dazzled by the amazing achievment of 5th in the league with no trophies that we suddenly can't judge how well we're actually playing any more isn't one I find compelling.
 
There is a difference between now and 10 years ago.

Moyes finished 17th on the back of one good season. Before that we fought relegation every year since 1996 and therefore the squad and resources were different and our expectations were.

Now we are a consistently top 7 team for years and therefore a terrible run is much more significant as we are too good to have this level of slump we are having. Therefore relegation battles AFTER he has been backed financially means he should be in danger of losing his job.
 
ToffeeDan said:
January 31st

By then we'll have played: West Ham (home, FA Cup), Man City (home), West Brom (home) and Palace (away) plus any possible further FA Cup ties. If we're still deep in the mire after the Palace game then there's no future in debating this. There are 3 opportunities in those 4 games (losing to City with some measure of pride and effort would be acceptable). The game on Tuesday is fairly pivotal to the state of mind of the manager and the players - lose this one and it looks like it may all come crashing down. Get a win or a replay and it's a stay of execution. Get nothing much (lose or draw) against a battling Albion and then fail to beat (presumably an equally battling) Palace and there's nowhere to hide. With games against Liverpool and Chelsea to follow it would be quite likely we would be on the precipice of the bottom 3 come mid February.

So, in summary - for me he's got until the end of January to turn things around.
Click to expand...

Whilst I agree with your analysis the problem is that any new manager would come in after the transfer window has closed
 

Those who quote the darkest before the dawn I.e. Moyes 17th in 03/04 to 4th in 04/05 - and want martinez to stay due to his footballing outlook - remember that it was the kind of football that would be completely abhorrent and unacceptable to martinez that engineered the incredible turnaround from 17th to 4th.
 

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