Should Martinez be sacked? (Post-Stoke poll)

[davek]

Pardon me, are you suggesting that the garden was full of roses up till December?

No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying that it hasn't all been in meltdown this season, it's just accelerated this past month and now takes on almost a life of its own...almost - it does have its little helpers trying to use it for their own ends.

 

[L4Everton]

No, I'm not suggesting that. I'm saying that it hasn't all been in meltdown this season, it's just accelerated this past month and now takes on almost a life of its own...almost - it does have its little helpers trying to use it for their own ends.

I'm not sure I follow, please indulge me.

 

[raib]

No - he shouldn't, we've been given high standards by him. It's no surprise that having set such high standards the people are being highly critical of him, footy is about results its that simple.

I always maintained i would judge him after 18 months and he is still doing well, just not right now! A defeat this week but he has played some of the squad and players that have been getting closer to the starting 11 that should stay there and keep some of the deadwood out.

• Distin
• Osman
• Pienaar
• Gibson
• McGeady

None of these offer consistency anymore, and thats the glaring omission.

You forgot to add Howard. Barry has been poor all season and Eto has done ok in a couple of games that's it.

I think he should keep McGeady - McGeady ONLY to come on for the last 15 minutes of a game (if we are losing).

 

[davek]

I'd just like to back Dave up fully here. Dave's not scared to throw the criticisms when he feels it necessary, so for him to maintain such a positive and sensible approach to our form and results this season says a lot in my book.

I'm not wishing to stifle debate, by all means let's discuss tactics and individual performances.We can all see the problems on the pitch, we can all wonder about the suggested problems off the pitch (which in the absence of a confirmed source I dismiss), but to call for the sacking of the manager in our current position, he having attracted and retained arguably our best squad in near 30 years, makes no sense at all.

The manager and players need our support not derision. I'm sure the Board of Everton will give him the time to see us right this season and beyond, it's time we collectively did so also.

That has to be the case. They would be utter laughing stocks in the present position we're in and after last season's exploits if they gave Martinez his marching orders. I agree with you though mate, I dont think Kenwright is trigger happy when it comes to this stuff. He's someone who'll reluctantly confront a situation like managerial change. Only if the howls of derision consistently spill down off the terraces and our PL status is in peril will he act. It took him practically until Smith was dancing up and down on the trapdoor before he acted against him...and as late as March.

It's time for the mischief-makers to put their toys back in the chest and settle down. Hopefully they're prodded in that direction after the Hull game.

 

[EverBlue86]

Naismith is costing us points? Slaps forehead with open palm.

Not him necessary more so martinez playing him and others in positions they are ineffective in.

You pick your best team not your best starting 11. If you can't see Barkley isn't a winger, eto'o isn't a midfielder and Naismith isn't a CAM then I can't help you.

 

[catcherintherye]

That has to be the case. They would be utter laughing stocks in the present position we're in and after last season's exploits if they gave Martinez his marching orders. I agree with you though mate, I dont think Kenwright is trigger happy when it comes to this stuff. He's someone who'll reluctantly confront a situation like managerial change. Only if the howls of derision consistently spill down off the terraces and our PL status is in peril will he act. It took him practically until Smith was dancing up and down on the trapdoor before he acted against him...and as late as March.

It's time for the mischief-makers to put their toys back in the chest and settle down. Hopefully they're prodded in that direction after the Hull game.

I'm as critical as you regarding Kenwright, but I have to say that in his defence he does understand football enough not to go rashly sacking anyone. It's one of the few things I can say is an admirable trait about him.

We know there will be little money to spend in January. I only hope he can support Martinez in moving one or two players on and possibly get a decent loan in or whatever.

January is not an ideal time to do business, especially for a club like ourselves who are short of cash. I think Martinez needs to signal some intent though, firstly to the fans to show he isn't going to put up with poor performances and secondly to the players to let them know come the summer changes will be happening. While Kenwright can't give him financial backing he can at least support him in giving the players the message that they will be moved on before he will be.

 

[davek]

I'm not sure I follow, please indulge me.

It's an OTT reaction by people who no doubt have their little favourite managerial project waiting in the wings...the ones who couldn't quite give up on the semi-agricultural way of playing under Moyes.

I must say also, and with regret, there's also something more sinister underlying it all it seems to me. A lot of this is typical bullying behaviour. The feller is not a bruiser of a manager and talks politely and with respect at all times. That's seen as weakness and the self appointed lynch mob see it as a further invitation to get stuck in.

That's probably harsh on some people who want another manager in, but I reckon it fits the bill for some others.

 

[JAYTALITY]

We tried so hard and got so far. But in in end it didn't really matter. We had to fall to loose it all. But in the end it didn't really matter.

 

[The Esk]

That has to be the case. They would be utter laughing stocks in the present position we're in and after last season's exploits if they gave Martinez his marching orders. I agree with you though mate, I dont think Kenwright is trigger happy when it comes to this stuff. He's someone who'll reluctantly confront a situation like managerial change. Only if the howls of derision consistently spill down off the terraces and our PL status is in peril will he act. It took him practically until Smith was dancing up and down on the trapdoor before he acted against him...and as late as March.

It's time for the mischief-makers to put their toys back in the chest and settle down. Hopefully they're prodded in that direction after the Hull game.

Totally agree, he has spent years culturing this "long-term custodian of the Club" persona (something I know you disagree with vehemently, but that's a different argument lol) - he's not going to do something which would run against this unless he absolutely had no other alternative.

He's also immune to the pressures of fans as we well know, so the small "pro-sack Martinez" element of our support really have nowhere to go with this campaign, far better getting behind the players at least, and hopefully the manager too.

 

[L4Everton]

We tried so hard and got so far. But in in end it didn't really matter. We had to fall to loose it all. But in the end it didn't really matter.

It's my way, my way, my way or the highway.

 

[L4Everton]

far better getting behind the players at least, and hopefully the manager too.

Interesting.

 

[The Esk]

Interesting.

Meaning, if for whatever reason you as a supporter can not get behind the manager then get behind the players on the pitch. Ideally you should be behind both as I and most are. This is not meant to suggest a division between players and management if that's your thinking. There is no verified evidence of this and until there is, it's a non-story.

 

[catcherintherye]

It's an OTT reaction by people who no doubt have their little favourite managerial project waiting in the wings...the ones who couldn't quite give up on the semi-agricultural way of playing under Moyes.

I must say also, and with regret, there's also something more sinister underlying it all it seems to me. A lot of this is typical bullying behaviour. The feller is not a bruiser of a manager and talks politely and with respect at all times. That's seen as weakness and the self appointed lynch mob see it as a further invitation to get stuck in.

That's probably harsh on some people who want another manager in, but I reckon it fits the bill for some others.

I think there’s a wider criticism that relates to how people knee jerk react. Personally I always supported Moyes, probably too much, but some of the criticism and the personal nature of it towards him was out of order.

Martinez has blooded Stones, Barkley, Browning and Garbutt this season, with probably Ledson to come. 5 players that could save Everton up to 100 million in the transfer market. He has tried to be adventurous. He has tried to do a lot of the things people criticised Moyes for. It’s still not enough though.
I know people want us to win the league and anybody who falls foul of that should be binned. But such a short sighted approach of constantly changing your manager, especially for a club with little money will greatly damage it. The manager should be judged on a whole season in charge. If we are 12th come the end of the season then questions till be asked. He’s a young manager still and learning all of the time and I hope he would come away and get the right answers.

I like the way he bloods young players though and how he is introducing a positive strategy to the team. He probably needs to be a bit more pragmatic at times. He’ll get there though, if he’s given the time and some money to bring his own players in.

 

[L4Everton]

It's an OTT reaction by people who no doubt have their little favourite managerial project waiting in the wings...the ones who couldn't quite give up on the semi-agricultural way of playing under Moyes.

I must say also, and with regret, there's also something more sinister underlying it all it seems to me. A lot of this is typical bullying behaviour. The feller is not a bruiser of a manager and talks politely and with respect at all times. That's seen as weakness and the self appointed lynch mob see it as a further invitation to get stuck in.

That's probably harsh on some people who want another manager in, but I reckon it fits the bill for some others.

People on here? chatting pie in the sky about god knows who from god knows which league? TBF I feel Moyes was hard done too (his leaving aside) and the 'semi-agricultural' way of playing as it has been termed did a job when the side wasn't as wealthy with riches as it is currently.

I have no idea what the 'something sinister underlying' is, I have zero doubt we have undercover red mess on here throwing the occasional comment in for their own amusement, but they slowly allow the light to expose them. I'm not sure whos part of the lynch mob condemning RM for talking the way he does.

Question Dave, are you happy for the experiment of the CB's doing the distribution* to continue?

[*I have labelled it 'titting about at the back' so that belies my position]

 

[marty mcfly]

The one small positive about yesterday was that it showed that most people on here talk utter tripe and know nothing about football.
Baines in midfield
Garbutt is the answer
Drop Howard
Drop Lukaku
All ideas that many on here were clammering for.

Well guess what lads?

Except....

Joel made a world class save and made no mistakes.
Baines played the killer ball into Mirallas, something no one has done all season.
Garbutt looked very decent in his first start given he had no cover from the snails Eto'o and Barry.
Kone scored in his first start and looked our best player.

Perhaps you only see what you want to see because it's certainly not the game.