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best little spaniard
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Transport problems, not in city, poor quality, cow shed etc.
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DENNIS STEVENS
Player Valuation: £20m
We were told the main reason for relocating was to generate additional funds to boost the transfer kitty, but the rising costs & diminishing liklihood of turning a profit of any note rather eliminates that argument. S o now we're spending all that money for the sake of a few thousand (4?) obstructed views, even though we could offset that much more economically at goodison park. Oh yeh, the share price might go up a bit initially, which would be nice for any current shareholders who're thinking about selling but maybe holding off pending the end of all this uncertainty about the Kirkby proposal, I suppose. 
ЭВЭРТОН
Player Valuation: £500k
Everton Stadium Proposal
This is a subject that doesn't really affect me too much where I live in London and don't get to many games, but as most blues I know are vehemently against the Kirkby Project I'm surprised that other locations have not even been looked at.
One location that seems to me to make a lot of sense would be near to Liverpool South Parkway Station. Knowing the area reasonably well it just ticks a lot of boxes for me.
There are very good Rail links for a start. - The station recently underwent a huge renovation to enable it to handle National Rail Services. There are also two merseyrail lines passing through the station to bring People from the city centre.
Road and motorway access is very good around there as well as the fact there's space to park about a million cars within ten minutes walk.
Liverpool Airport is a short bus ride away which would be handy for away supporters now we're qualifying for europe most seasons. It would probably attract more fans to follow everton from abroad
Land will also be pretty cheap around that area I presume.
This is a subject that doesn't really affect me too much where I live in London and don't get to many games, but as most blues I know are vehemently against the Kirkby Project I'm surprised that other locations have not even been looked at.
One location that seems to me to make a lot of sense would be near to Liverpool South Parkway Station. Knowing the area reasonably well it just ticks a lot of boxes for me.
There are very good Rail links for a start. - The station recently underwent a huge renovation to enable it to handle National Rail Services. There are also two merseyrail lines passing through the station to bring People from the city centre.
Road and motorway access is very good around there as well as the fact there's space to park about a million cars within ten minutes walk.
Liverpool Airport is a short bus ride away which would be handy for away supporters now we're qualifying for europe most seasons. It would probably attract more fans to follow everton from abroad
Land will also be pretty cheap around that area I presume.
Bluebuzzer
Player Valuation: Free Transfer
I didnt really want to comment on all this Kirkby stuff, its been done to death, However i am in the construction sector, not your house extension or primary school stuff. I work in large major construction projects such as Airports, Shopping centres, large office developments and yes football stadia. I was also unfortunate to have had a hand in the budget costing of the RS's proposed new stadia (bloody waste of time). I will also not go into detail but a few facts that a few may not be aware of are the following........
1. Goodison Park will basically find it near on impossible to get relevant safety and fire certificates for goodison in less than 10 years time. The steelwork and superstructure in the stadia as is will not pass regs due to its age. Yes maybe additional structure and encasements to combat fire safety may work but the cost would be astronomic and not a very cost effective way to "buy more time", coupled with the fact that revenue loss and all the money coming from the club just makes it a laughable solution for what would basically seem to the fans as being "all that money just to see some new steel and beams". I am NOT an expert in that very field, far from it but as a lay mans guesstimate i would hazard £30 - £40m to do the whole job........... loss of revenue? well who knows?
2. These people that say "glorified cow shed" eeerrrrm HELLO !!! i have seen the RS's plans in depth some time ago and i can assure you Evertons (from little i've seen) are no different in specification. Those who have seen the Nou Camp, i'm sure you will agree although huge, the specification isnt that much to look at? Even wembley with the exception of the roof is fairly basic in its detail. Dont get me wrong, i'd love to see Evertons new ground (if it happens) have an all encompassing roof 360 degrees around the place but if what was said is true that the "corners" can be "rounded" off with a roof in the future then thats a good option for us to have. ALL stadia are basically cow sheds, what makes a stadia special is the viewing experience, the corporate facilities and the all round atmosphere.
3. Our gates are down on a lot of Prem clubs because of our 4000 obstructed views. Tell me, would you like to see Everton V Hull on a sunday afternoon knowing you were a) going to get p155ed on (family enclosure) or B) stuck behind a post viewing half a pitch. I think not, if we had 40,000 grade A viewing seats then we would fill them (given our recent success) and i suspect even more!!! I think we offer 4000 seats to away supporters and most of those only take half their allocation (ok maybe more) so our actual attendances are pretty good year on year. I do feel we could get 45,000 week in week out plus the away support so i'm guessing we are about 10 - 15,000 seats short.
The above is just my view but with a bit of "professional" understanding thrown in, dont get me wrong, i love Goodison and i do want to KEIOC but my head tells me that my heart has to give way. No doubt people will have arguments for and against what i said but i like i said its just me and my view and a little of what i do for a living thrown in
I love Everton, my son and i live and breath this club and i only want wants best for us all. One thing we all have in common is we love a great old lady like our grandmothers and we're only looking after her best interests the best way we know how!!!!
Sorry i also wanted to say that if we were to build a NEW stadium then right now is the time to do it, in heart of a recession. The construction industry is fast running out of work and inherantly construction is a good 12 months behind the rest of the economy so we could get a good knock down price for a new stadium and the contract could be written into a more "one sided" approach in favour of everton to ensure we dont have costs spiralling out of control. Construction costs are at an all time low, material prices are hitting rock bottom, if you are gonna build then build NOW !
1. Goodison Park will basically find it near on impossible to get relevant safety and fire certificates for goodison in less than 10 years time. The steelwork and superstructure in the stadia as is will not pass regs due to its age. Yes maybe additional structure and encasements to combat fire safety may work but the cost would be astronomic and not a very cost effective way to "buy more time", coupled with the fact that revenue loss and all the money coming from the club just makes it a laughable solution for what would basically seem to the fans as being "all that money just to see some new steel and beams". I am NOT an expert in that very field, far from it but as a lay mans guesstimate i would hazard £30 - £40m to do the whole job........... loss of revenue? well who knows?
2. These people that say "glorified cow shed" eeerrrrm HELLO !!! i have seen the RS's plans in depth some time ago and i can assure you Evertons (from little i've seen) are no different in specification. Those who have seen the Nou Camp, i'm sure you will agree although huge, the specification isnt that much to look at? Even wembley with the exception of the roof is fairly basic in its detail. Dont get me wrong, i'd love to see Evertons new ground (if it happens) have an all encompassing roof 360 degrees around the place but if what was said is true that the "corners" can be "rounded" off with a roof in the future then thats a good option for us to have. ALL stadia are basically cow sheds, what makes a stadia special is the viewing experience, the corporate facilities and the all round atmosphere.
3. Our gates are down on a lot of Prem clubs because of our 4000 obstructed views. Tell me, would you like to see Everton V Hull on a sunday afternoon knowing you were a) going to get p155ed on (family enclosure) or B) stuck behind a post viewing half a pitch. I think not, if we had 40,000 grade A viewing seats then we would fill them (given our recent success) and i suspect even more!!! I think we offer 4000 seats to away supporters and most of those only take half their allocation (ok maybe more) so our actual attendances are pretty good year on year. I do feel we could get 45,000 week in week out plus the away support so i'm guessing we are about 10 - 15,000 seats short.
The above is just my view but with a bit of "professional" understanding thrown in, dont get me wrong, i love Goodison and i do want to KEIOC but my head tells me that my heart has to give way. No doubt people will have arguments for and against what i said but i like i said its just me and my view and a little of what i do for a living thrown in
I love Everton, my son and i live and breath this club and i only want wants best for us all. One thing we all have in common is we love a great old lady like our grandmothers and we're only looking after her best interests the best way we know how!!!!
Sorry i also wanted to say that if we were to build a NEW stadium then right now is the time to do it, in heart of a recession. The construction industry is fast running out of work and inherantly construction is a good 12 months behind the rest of the economy so we could get a good knock down price for a new stadium and the contract could be written into a more "one sided" approach in favour of everton to ensure we dont have costs spiralling out of control. Construction costs are at an all time low, material prices are hitting rock bottom, if you are gonna build then build NOW !
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Is that you Bill?
Bluebuzzer
Player Valuation: Free Transfer
Yes my son, what is it?
........ oops sorry i should say " I'm bored of that question, i dont want to answer it, go away" 
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
No, he just happened to be here at the right time. Nothing to do with the club.
Nebbiolo
Valuation: £108 million
1. Not in the city
2. Estranged from core support and potential core support
3. Kirkby isn't particularly nice
4. Terrible transport links
5. Cheap and nasty stadium (not world-class like promised)
6. Knowsley council have designs on using it half the year
7. Costs about £100m for dodgy ownership rights
8. Situated in a big car park with Tesco (soulless)
Goat can finish off the list
2. Estranged from core support and potential core support
3. Kirkby isn't particularly nice
4. Terrible transport links
5. Cheap and nasty stadium (not world-class like promised)
6. Knowsley council have designs on using it half the year
7. Costs about £100m for dodgy ownership rights
8. Situated in a big car park with Tesco (soulless)
Goat can finish off the list
Bluebuzzer
Player Valuation: Free Transfer
1. Not in the city
2. Estranged from core support and potential core support
3. Kirkby isn't particularly nice
4. Terrible transport links
5. Cheap and nasty stadium (not world-class like promised)
6. Knowsley council have designs on using it half the year
7. Costs about £100m for dodgy ownership rights
8. Situated in a big car park with Tesco (soulless)
Goat can finish off the list
I dont think item 5 has any credence Nebbiolo sorry. All stadia are as you put it "cow sheds", ok definition of world class......... I would say that if it was a 50 - 55,000 seater then if the world cup was held in England, a group match would be played there......... hence world class! I totally agree a fully 360 degree covered stadium is what we need but theres nothing to suggest it would be "sub standard". After all, was there such a big difference from the Park end facilities to that of Wembleys ????? NO! there wasnt a single thing apart from i went up a little escalator to get to my viewing platform AND thats our National Stadium!!!!
The other points you raise all carry a lot of weight but i'm not sure the transport issue would be a big deal and in fact may even get better, you just dont know that.
Oh and regards item 3. I'll remember that the next time i step in dog sh1t walking ........ or should i say tip toeing to the Bullens Road
1. Not in the city
2. Estranged from core support and potential core support
3. Kirkby isn't particularly nice
4. Terrible transport links
5. Cheap and nasty stadium (not world-class like promised)
6. Knowsley council have designs on using it half the year
7. Costs about £100m for dodgy ownership rights
8. Situated in a big car park with Tesco (soulless)
Goat can finish off the list
I think you covered most things there.
9. Not Goodison
trebilcock66
Player Valuation: £8m
Good post from bluebuzzer - informed and specific.
To answer the original question: Why is the Kirby move such a big deal.
Others may argue differently but I think it's all about history. GP is our home, the stadium in which Dean scored his 60th goal and with which we've all grown up. So some of us (me included) are loath to give it up. It's largely emotional for me - GP is part of my life, a big part.
A move to Kirby might seem a small distance - espec from your vantage point in the USA, Arteta but in the crowded NWest of England, such matters are very, very important. EFC are the original Liverpool club so it matters to people that we might move away.
On the other hand - as others have posted most eloquently - the numbers are not good. The stadium is utterly out-of-date and will continue to decay. And as has been pointed out, the streets around the stadium are (on match days) awash with dog and horse crap, chip papers and drinks cans. The club and fans deserve better and EFC sure needs more money that would come from higher attendances and more exec boxes.
So the two sides will probably never agree. That's why it's a big deal. Imagine an American patriot who loves his country. What would his reaction be if a future administration stated that The White House has been outgrown and a new presidential residence was proposed in the suburbs of DC. And what's more, the federal budget would only stretch to a prefabricated, warehouse-type building alongside a gigantic new Wal-Mart. The Patriot would be appalled as the WH symbolises the presidency for many Americans.
Same for some Evertonians.
To answer the original question: Why is the Kirby move such a big deal.
Others may argue differently but I think it's all about history. GP is our home, the stadium in which Dean scored his 60th goal and with which we've all grown up. So some of us (me included) are loath to give it up. It's largely emotional for me - GP is part of my life, a big part.
A move to Kirby might seem a small distance - espec from your vantage point in the USA, Arteta but in the crowded NWest of England, such matters are very, very important. EFC are the original Liverpool club so it matters to people that we might move away.
On the other hand - as others have posted most eloquently - the numbers are not good. The stadium is utterly out-of-date and will continue to decay. And as has been pointed out, the streets around the stadium are (on match days) awash with dog and horse crap, chip papers and drinks cans. The club and fans deserve better and EFC sure needs more money that would come from higher attendances and more exec boxes.
So the two sides will probably never agree. That's why it's a big deal. Imagine an American patriot who loves his country. What would his reaction be if a future administration stated that The White House has been outgrown and a new presidential residence was proposed in the suburbs of DC. And what's more, the federal budget would only stretch to a prefabricated, warehouse-type building alongside a gigantic new Wal-Mart. The Patriot would be appalled as the WH symbolises the presidency for many Americans.
Same for some Evertonians.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
What proof do you have - beyond Mr Elstone's assertions - that a safety certificate for GP will be withheld within the decade? As for a complete refurbishment of Goodison: it's doable. Even the club say that (and they acknowledge the efforts of some of the best architects and designers who've proven this) but it comes at a price this particular regime cant provide costs for. This we know. I fail to see how the solution is to rush into a suburban build away from the core of our support with poor transport links and a local council calling the shots on revenue and use of the stadium.
Analysis that runs counter to the admissions of expert witness evidence FOR the stadium by those looking to fit the Barr shell out which acknowledges the basic design and potential atmospheric issues of the proposed stadium, and that's quite besides the absolute roasting the aesthetic 'virtues' of this build recieved from CABE: Kirkby Masterplan | Design review | CABE
We have a small matter of the Olympic games coming up. I suspect construction costs in terms of labour and materials (steel isn't Everton's problem so much - it's Barr's, we our just having to fit out the skeletal structure) will be affected...and then there'll possibly be the much vaunted public works programmes getting shuffled forward to provide employment (political conditions no doubt permitting post election). Initial costs to the club THREE YEARS AGO were £78M. Unless Tesco are going to force Barr to pass on any savings from currently plummeting steel prices I'd suggest that it'll be at least that original cost and probably more. A club that cant raise another two million for two Championship players.
Arteta2391
Player Valuation: £30m
Thank you this was the type of post I was looking for. I guess you can't explain this whole situation in a sentence or two.
I don't want to turn this thread into a Kirby bashing or the that Kirby thread that's 180 pages long
the name Kirby does sound cool, but not as cool as Everton.
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