Stadium Thread - ALL Kirkby/Stadium Discussion Here

[Neiler]

Feasibility studies carried out by KSS and Savills - the two companies set to make a mint out of Kirkby? Those feasibility studies?

Transport issues - they are legion mate. The infrastructure just isn't there for a 50,000 seat stadium to be serviced in Kirkby. Even the club accepts this to be a major headache.

Give it up Neiler. Put down 'the facts' and step away from the screen.

So its a choice between [Poor language removed] existing transport, and less shiter transport, in a new stadium.

Hmm!

 

[Neiler]

Its not possible to remain at Kirkby. Chairmans/Chief Executives for god knows how long have said so.

Going alone without a commerical partner as in Tesco is not feasible.

So where does that leave us?

Time to start focusing attentions on ensuring that should the stadium be built, it is built correctly. It was said the design was based upon FC Kolns stadium;

Now look here;

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v665/RichardL1969/scarves-1.jpg

I wouldn't have a problem with that, even if we are 4 miles from Goodison Park and have a Tesco outside...

Danny do you know what thats the most sensible post ive ever read about the issue, personaly instead of being indignent, about the move, those against should be lobbying for the stadium and apparent deficincies they have a problem with to be rectified.

I actually love the design of the new staidum, its the closest thing to Goodison in any new Satdium ive seen which is slightly ironic!

Additional i think the kirkby design is far superior to the Colonge Satdium, which has to be said is an awsome and intimadating satadium. I hope they keep the steep teirs of the stands that will really [Poor language removed] the opposition!

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Transport issues - they are legion mate. The infrastructure just isn't there for a 50,000 seat stadium to be serviced in Kirkby. Even the club accepts this to be a major headache.

I never understand this logic. If 40,000 can get into Goodison... 50,000 should get to Kirkby much, much easier. Why? Well its right on the arse end of motorway etc

*awaits the "But Kirkby train station isn't good enough" argument - well, its just as good, if not better (certainly better than say Kirkdale) than the rail stations currently serving Goodison Park.

 

[gordonjblair]

The Transport and the fincial aspects to this move mate are all red herrings the spin can be twisted any way you want depending on what your opinion is.

Not a red herring if it gets to be such a ballache to get to and from that casual supporters can no longer be arsed - bearing in mind the requirement to boost attendances to make it worthwhile.

Notwithstanding the fact that the revenue (not profit) boost was already marginal at £10M pa, before these limiting factors were taken into account, the business case for the move is marginal

Feasibility studies have indicated that it WOULD be possible to develop new 50,000 capacity on an expanded site, including Goodison Park and land to the east. Assembling this site would require the purchase and relocation of a large school, the purchase of over 100 houses and the purchase and relocation of a large garage business, none of which are currently in the ownership of EFC.

The school is one of 4 earmarked for merger / closure
As far as I'm aware there is currently more of an issue around CPOs in Kirkby than there ever was expected to be in Walton
The garage land is owned by LCC, the tenant could be moved without too much difficulty.

The cost of constructing the new stadium would range from circa £205 million to £245 million, at July 2008 figures, depending upon phasing. These figures do not include any costs associated with purchasing the expanded site, relocating or rebuilding the school, purchasing and/or relocating 100 residential units, purchasing and relocating the existing garage, loss of revenue during construction or increased costs due to an approximate 2 years delay in order to assemble the site and obtain planning permission.

again, we're back to figures that suggest that it costs £100M more to build in Walton than it does in Kirkby (bearing in mind that it has been accepted by the developers that land prep for the Kirkby site -whether compaction or excavation - will be very expensive). How cheap is labour over the other side of the 57?

These options are considered completely unviable by EFC.

read: too hard

at the moment, it's not about the pro's and con's of redeveloping GP, because that is not yet on the table. What needs to be done, unless and until the Tescodome gets binned, is for proper consideration being given to important aspects of the Kirkby Stadium.

It seems that were are being presented with a very short term solution which will have long term ramifications.

 

[Neiler]

Not a red herring if it gets to be such a ballache to get to and from that casual supporters can no longer be arsed - bearing in mind the requirement to boost attendances to make it worthwhile.

Notwithstanding the fact that the revenue (not profit) boost was already marginal at £10M pa, before these limiting factors were taken into account, the business case for the move is marginal


The school is one of 4 earmarked for merger / closure
As far as I'm aware there is currently more of an issue around CPOs in Kirkby than there ever was expected to be in Walton
The garage land is owned by LCC, the tenant could be moved without too much difficulty.

again, we're back to figures that suggest that it costs £100M more to build in Walton than it does in Kirkby (bearing in mind that it has been accepted by the developers that land prep for the Kirkby site -whether compaction or excavation - will be very expensive). How cheap is labour over the other side of the 57?

read: too hard

at the moment, it's not about the pro's and con's of redeveloping GP, because that is not yet on the table. What needs to be done, unless and until the Tescodome gets binned, is for proper consideration being given to important aspects of the Kirkby Stadium.

It seems that were are being presented with a very short term solution which will have long term ramifications.

i dont agree with most of that mate, but i agree with the highlighted.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

How about the short-term ramifications of losing a few million a year and already being £60m+ in debt at a time when securing short-term credit is very difficult? We better hope Davey keeps pulling rabbits from the hat because if we slump down the table all those nice shiny players we have will be off to balance the books. Financially we're up [Poor language removed] creek. Beggars simply cannot afford to be choosers.

We need a new investor. A new investor needs a new stadium. No new investor means this club is in serious, serious trouble.

 

[davek]

I never understand this logic. If 40,000 can get into Goodison... 50,000 should get to Kirkby much, much easier. Why? Well its right on the arse end of motorway etc

*awaits the "But Kirkby train station isn't good enough" argument - well, its just as good, if not better (certainly better than say Kirkdale) than the rail stations currently serving Goodison Park.

It might be 'right on the arse end of motorway' but the controlled parking zones take the goodness out of that. What's the point of driving to the match, parking up in one of the alloted zones and then walking a couple of miles? The club are selling this as a public transport friendly relocation dont forget. And on that score you have the prospect of 'crush loading' of fans onto trains; and the hiring of public transport from all over the north west of England - because fleets on Merseyside wont cope with the demand on top of other responsibilities they have in the area - all snarling up the town centre if they can get close enough to it, and that's why you have suggestions of staggered exit strategies with supporters getting locked in the ground for an hour after full time to ease congestion.

Nightmare.

 

[gordonjblair]

I never understand this logic. If 40,000 can get into Goodison... 50,000 should get to Kirkby much, much easier. Why? Well its right on the arse end of motorway etc

*awaits the "But Kirkby train station isn't good enough" argument - well, its just as good, if not better (certainly better than say Kirkdale) than the rail stations currently serving Goodison Park.

Because a lower proportion will be walking up to the ground
because those coming in on the motorway will not constitute the lion's share of the attendance (we're not the RS, remember), and will not be allowed to park near the ground.
because at GP dispersal is in ALL directions, not just focussed down one or two key routes.
because the 40,000 visitors to GP aren't competing with tens of thousands of shoppers for space on the road


The developers own transport study highlights deficiencies, and they're obliged to paint a rosy picture.

However much you deny it (general statement, not aimed personally at you, Danny), doesn't make it any better.

If the Club has to move, it has to do it properly, and as yet, it isn't

 

[gordonjblair]

How about the short-term ramifications of losing a few million a year and already being £60m+ in debt at a time when securing short-term credit is very difficult? We better hope Davey keeps pulling rabbits from the hat because if we slump down the table all those nice shiny players we have will be off to balance the books. Financially we're up [Poor language removed] creek. Beggars simply cannot afford to be choosers.

We need a new investor. A new investor needs a new stadium. No new investor means this club is in serious, serious trouble.

Bruce, if the Stadium guaranteed new investment, then that would help, but in order to do that, you have to ensure that the deal to build the new Stadium doesn't hamstring the earning potential of said investment (remember, we are stuck there for a minimum of 25 years) .

The current agreements around the limiting of large non-football uses to 6 per annum, in addition to the free and cut price arrangements with KMBC seriously limit the earning potential of the ground. Arrangements such as these will not help the marketability of the club.

It could, in fact be argued that the club is more saleable at the moment: £50M for the club as it stands, with the potential to make money out of a development of the new owners choosing, where future earning potential can be maximised, rather than limited; or £200M for the club with the revenue dead end which is the current redevelopment.

 

[Sharpys top lip]

Davek im having trouble sleeping mate, you fancy coming round to mine an telling me all you points on Kirkby!!

 

[Makis]

Danny do you know what thats the most sensible post ive ever read about the issue, personaly instead of being indignent, about the move, those against should be lobbying for the stadium and apparent deficincies they have a problem with to be rectified.

What's the point? The club has told a long time ago they are not interested in any input from the fans.

I actually love the design of the new staidum, its the closest thing to Goodison in any new Satdium ive seen which is slightly ironic!

Could you explain this to me. For me they are totally different. GP has four distinct sides while Kirkby has four identical sides. There are no similiarities on the outside, either.

Apart from "four sides" there are no similarities. I don't think JJB is similar to GP either even though it has four sides as well. Besides, I looked at JJB when we played them (on the telly) and thought the stands look better than in the Kirkby proposal. At least there was an effort to make the roofs looks distinct.

Additional i think the kirkby design is far superior to the Colonge Satdium, which has to be said is an awsome and intimadating satadium. I hope they keep the steep teirs of the stands that will really [Poor language removed] the opposition!

What makes this proposal so great? I just don't get it. It doesn't even look like the acoustics are that great.

And "design"? Anyone could create that design with lego blocks. Do you think old Lada's look great, too? This one has about as much appeal as the Kirkby stadium:
[media]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Lada_2101.jpg[/media]

 

[Neiler]

What's the point? The club has told a long time ago they are not interested in any input from the fans.


Could you explain this to me. For me they are totally different. GP has four distinct sides while Kirkby has four identical sides. There are no similiarities on the outside, either.

Apart from "four sides" there are no similarities. I don't think JJB is similar to GP either even though it has four sides as well. Besides, I looked at JJB when we played them (on the telly) and thought the stands look better than in the Kirkby proposal. At least there was an effort to make the roofs looks distinct.


What makes this proposal so great? I just don't get it. It doesn't even look like the acoustics are that great.

And "design"? Anyone could create that design with lego blocks. Do you think old Lada's look great, too? This one has about as much appeal as the Kirkby stadium:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/Lada_2101.jpg

Sums it up really mate!

 

[davek]

On behalf of the club, Deloitte have estimated an extra £6M revenue generated p.a. at Kirkby. A club that is servicing an existing debt of £68M and stands to, at best, get away with loading a further level of debt onto the club of £80M minus naming rights, sale of GP/Bellefield. Servicing our debts is the name of the game here. It's a bleak scenario. Of course, we could win the Champions League to transform the situation.

 

[davek]

Sums it up really mate!

He's asked you some decent questions Neiler, and you've ducked them. Says it all really.

 

[Sharpys top lip]

On behalf of the club, Deloitte have estimated an extra £6M revenue generated p.a. at Kirkby. A club that is servicing an existing debt of £68M and stands to, at best, get away with loading a further level of debt onto the club of £80M minus naming rights, sale of GP/Bellefield. Servicing our debts is the name of the game here. It's a bleak scenario. Of course, we could win the Champions League to transform the situation.

Or we could not go to kirkby an rot at goodison. Theirs no other options in the pipeline.

Get it!!