Stadium Thread - ALL Kirkby/Stadium Discussion Here

[GrandOldTeam]

Good for you (genuinely). I accept the student population would benefit for course fees and to supplement whatever grant/allowance/bursary they get - but they are the type of people who will travel around outside the area anyway to find employment .

I'm not on about University students Dave. I am thinking prior that, (college) when drop out rate is highest, particulary within areas such as Kirkby largely due to £££.

Jobs provided by Tesco, cinemas, stadium etc would no doubt benefit Kirkby. Excuse spelling, hungover!

 

[davek]

I'm not on about University students Dave. I am thinking prior that, (college) when drop out rate is highest, particulary within areas such as Kirkby largely due to £££.

Jobs provided by Tesco, cinemas, stadium etc would no doubt benefit Kirkby. Excuse spelling, hungover!

That's pretty much the message that the applicants have been making in this inquiry: 'think of the next generation' etc etc. But those kids should be given the financial means to stick it out at FE and make the transition to HE without the need for a job in Tesco/Pizza Hut/Wherever. In fact, the job itself will detract from the study and provide an obstacle in and of itself to getting the required exam/coursework results to go on to HE. If what you say is the object of the exercise I think what I've just referred to is a big flaw in the plan. It makes little sense to me.

 

[gordonjblair]

I think we're getting a bit sidetracked here. I don't think anyone denies that Kirkby could benefit greatly from an influx of Business to the area.

I'm not confident that the ambitious scale of the retail development is viable (commercially or legally), so the scale may end up being slightly smaller, but it will still bring much needed extra jobs to the area, and Tesco does have a reasonably good record in ensuring a proportion of those jobs go to the long term unemployed.

Whether those jobs provide a long structured career path or not, they are preferable to signing on.

Having said all of the above, I don't believe that Kirkby needs a football Stadium, personally, all that crap about raising the profile of Knowsley is silly - how many people nationally do you think know that the Reebok isn't actually in Bolton?

The move is also a risk at the moment for the Club:
Limited guarantees of increase in return (we're struggling with attendance as it is),
Limited returns on our assets in the current climate (land prices for GP and Bellefield are through the floor at the moment regardless of Planning issues)
The level of cross subsidy is at risk should the development be reduced in scope.
The contractual arrangements tie us in to a minimum of 25 years in the Stadium with largely restrictive covenants over the revenue generation from the ground.

Overall the Cost / Risk / Benefit picture is really quite marginal at the moment.

So, yes Kirkby needs the development, but not a Stadium, without the Stadium, the development can be a more appropriate size
and be more likely to obtain approval.

The clubs need for better facilities isn't in question, but whether this is the right option or time commercially, most certainly is.

... and I didn't have to call anybody names, you big gang of cockhuggers

 

[GrandOldTeam]

That's pretty much the message that the applicants have been making in this inquiry: 'think of the next generation' etc etc. But those kids should be given the financial means to stick it out at FE and make the transition to HE without the need for a job in Tesco/Pizza Hut/Wherever. In fact, the job itself will detract from the study and provide an obstacle in and of itself to getting the required exam/coursework results to go on to HE. If what you say is the object of the exercise I think what I've just referred to is a big flaw in the plan. It makes little sense to me.

I have witnessed first hand of students leaving education because they need money. They shouldn't need to but thats living in an idealistic world. Fact is thats how it is, sadly.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

I think we're getting a bit sidetracked here. I don't think anyone denies that Kirkby could benefit greatly from an influx of Business to the area.

If Everton leaving has no impact on Walton's finances, then Everton going to Kirkby can have no impact on Kirkby finances, surely?

Go figure!?

 

[gordonjblair]

Everton has no effect, but all those other businesses clearly will, more importantly the money they bring in is far more likely to be spent in and around the area.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Everton has no effect, but all those other businesses clearly will, more importantly the money they bring in is far more likely to be spent in and around the area.

Everton clearly would have a big, big effect.

Everton would attract further, bigger businesses

 

[davek]

I think we're getting a bit sidetracked here. I don't think anyone denies that Kirkby could benefit greatly from an influx of Business to the area.

I'm not confident that the ambitious scale of the retail development is viable (commercially or legally), so the scale may end up being slightly smaller, but it will still bring much needed extra jobs to the area, and Tesco does have a reasonably good record in ensuring a proportion of those jobs go to the long term unemployed.

Whether those jobs provide a long structured career path or not, they are preferable to signing on.

Having said all of the above, I don't believe that Kirkby needs a football Stadium, personally, all that crap about raising the profile of Knowsley is silly - how many people nationally do you think know that the Reebok isn't actually in Bolton?

The move is also a risk at the moment for the Club:
Limited guarantees of increase in return (we're struggling with attendance as it is),
Limited returns on our assets in the current climate (land prices for GP and Bellefield are through the floor at the moment regardless of Planning issues)
The level of cross subsidy is at risk should the development be reduced in scope.
The contractual arrangements tie us in to a minimum of 25 years in the Stadium with largely restrictive covenants over the revenue generation from the ground.

Overall the Cost / Risk / Benefit picture is really quite marginal at the moment.

So, yes Kirkby needs the development, but not a Stadium, without the Stadium, the development can be a more appropriate size
and be more likely to obtain approval.

The clubs need for better facilities isn't in question, but whether this is the right option or time commercially, most certainly is.

... and I didn't have to call anybody names, you big gang of cockhuggers

As it stands the application if passed will lead to the disappearance of the Skelmersdale regeneration - which falls within the Local Development Framework - and deepen the levels of deprivation in that town. That cant be allowed to happen by the SoS, who seems to be fully behind the West Lancs/St Modwen plan for Skem. The lawyers for the applicants have been concentrating their fire on Skem's 'non-chronic' status all through the Inquiry. They know it underlines the reason why regional spatial strategies are there in the first place. All their talk of the need to regenerate Kirkby just makes the obvious counterpoint that degeneration will be the result elsewhere. It's an idiotic approach, and for all their chancing of the arm of the SoS, Destination Kirkby simply has to be reduced in scale. The Inspector's comments yesterday tend to confirm that she isn't buying into the belief that the level deemed necessary is required. I'd expect a knock back for this, which will mean another application and judgement who knows how long down the line. And all the while the contradictions you list concerning Everton FC and the proposed stadium in Kirkby become even more apparent. Question is, will that be it for the club at that point? I have my doubts. They now hint at having equity resources to call on that could make up any shortfall in cross funding. This one could run for a couple of years without a definitive decision made on this sorry episode. It's turning into Everton's Vietnam.

 

[Slight_Return]

KEIOC has to stand for something else. surely.

Keep Everton Inbreds Overly Comfortable
Kirkby Evolution Intransigence Oppresively Corrupt

 

[gordonjblair]

KEIOC has to stand for something else. surely.

Keep Everton Inbreds Overly Comfortable
Kirkby Evolution Intransigence Oppresively Corrupt

Suits, regardless of your differing views, surely you can respect the fact that they were prepared to get off their arses and do something that they believed in... granted, some of their early work was misguided at best, but at least they've stood up for what they believe in.

I thought you'd appreciate that.

 

[HalewoodBlue_ver.2.0]

Suits, regardless of your differing views, surely you can respect the fact that they were prepared to get off their arses and do something that they believed in... granted, some of their early work was misguided at best, but at least they've stood up for what they believe in.

I thought you'd appreciate that.

How can you appreciate anyone intent on stopping Everton progressing? If they succeed i will have nothing but contempt for them

 

[davek]

How can you appreciate anyone intent on stopping Everton progressing? If they succeed i will have nothing but contempt for them

Your view means less than nothing....to me, obviously.

 

[HalewoodBlue_ver.2.0]

Your view means less than nothing....to me, obviously.

My heart bleeds

 

[davek]

KEIOC has to stand for something else. surely.

Keep Everton Inbreds Overly Comfortable
Kirkby Evolution Intransigence Oppresively Corrupt

No mate, it just stands for Keep Everton In Our City.

<salutes quality of G.O.T. making it so superior to Kipper>

 

[davek]

My heart bleeds blue blood you waster.