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I was joking!
Agree mate, although think that's harsh on Cenk.
His movement is actually good but against the better sides he's easily crowded out.
It's why it's stupid not to play them together in at least a few games.
DCL does the running/legwork and has the pace and energy to stretch the defence. That opens up space for Tosun.
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
Yeah Tom get's load of stick too.
In fairness both Davies and DCL have had too much senior football over the last 18 months. Davies especially has played in over 95% of our games and that's silly for a teenager who's body is still developing. For a team who should be pushing for a top 4 spot, neither are quite good enough yet, but that isn't their fault. It's the fault of the management team that left the squad in such an unbalanced state.
It's improved since we brought Tosun and Walcott in, and the amount of football DCL has played since January is just about right. However Davies is still playing too much and I'm one of those who has called for him and Beni to be rotated. Beni has had very little football under Allardyce having been one of the very few who impressed under Unsworth.
The problem some of our fans have is they expect anybody who pulls on the blue shirt to be the finished article. I don't think they pick on the young players per se, they just don't differentiate between experienced older players and young inexperienced when dishing out the dirt. If they play for Everton they have to be good enough or they're out. No dispensation for being young. Their view is get shut or get them out on loan and let somebody else develop them.
The problem with that is they very rarely, if ever, develop at a lower standard. The only way they learn is at the top level, playing with and against the best players and being coached by the best coaches. We currently have maybe 10 youngsters who have an opportunity to make it s a top premier player, but are not yet ready to hold down a regular starting slot in a team pushing the top 6. So what do we do with them? Apart from maybe Feeney and Baningime, most have had plenty of game time at senior level and would not benefit from being loaned out to the championship. So we have to try and develop them ourselves, and any we think may not get sufficient game time should be loaned out but at a decent standard. i.e. another premier club or somewhere like Germany or France.
haha, I got mixed up with my responses to the threads. my bad
I think it's a bit of a red herring to suggest that Garbutt and Galloway regressed on loan.
There's a reason that they were both sent out on loan - they weren't good enough to play for us. They had both done OK when filling in, but both had very clear deficiencies if you actually analysed them. We sent them on loan hoping they'd lose those weaknesses, but unfortunately they didn't, and the teams they went to didn't like their deficiencies either. I don't think either of them got worse, they just haven't necessarily got better. It's one of my favourite footballing myths that every young player will magically get better just by playing more but it's just not the case. Every player has a ceiling, and these 2 appear to have hit theirs.
They could both come back in and play for us and not look shockingly out of place because they'll still have the basic skills to play the game at a decent level.
Garbutt and Galloway have both dropped off a cliff mate.
Maybe not in the sense of actual ability, but certainly in confidence - which is a huge factor for any player.
DCL's biggest asset is his self-belief. The confidence he'll have got from this season will be immense.
Look at what he's done in the last year:
- Scored a winning goal in a World Cup final
- Established himself in the Premier League
- Put in some brilliant performances (that display against City away is the best performance any of our players put in all season bar Rooney v West Ham)
- Ended up leading the line because of our failure to sign a striker
- Signed a six-year deal
All that and he's just turned 21.
I'm not saying he's the best player we have or should be starting. But I think a loan risks derailing some of that confidence.
Let him stay and prove he has the quality to get in our team (which he certainly does as it stands, though that's more because of how poor we are). That's how you improve given where he already is now.
If he'd just broken through and played 10 games, I'd say a loan would be the right move. But at this stage I think it will benefit him to stay, although that comes with the caveat that it's dependent on how the new manager sets up.
..linked with Besiktas playmaker, Oghuzan Ozyakup. Turkish press suggesting Davy Klaassen could be part of any move.
The Daily Mail reckon we’re interested in Aston Villa’s Jack Grealish.
The Daily Mail reckon we’re interested in Aston Villa’s Jack Grealish.
ROSS Barkley won an FA cup medal sitting in the bench
efcbluearmy
Player Valuation: £750k
Imagine thinking that DCL will never be prem quality and in the same breath claim you're convinced klaassen is a class player with goals in him lol. I'm so glad that none of you will ever be scouts.
Stuartisitc1878
Player Valuation: £25m
Grealish has something about him but Villa fans i know think he lacks the brains to make the most of it.... sounds like Ross Barkley Mk2
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
For once I disagree with you mate.
There's loans to get game time at senior level for young players that haven't had that exposure, and there's loans designed to develop a players abilities. The former is there to expose the lad to the realities of open age football, see if they are up to the physical side of the game and have the mental strength needed to be a professional footballer. The latter is to improve the players qualities and work on their weaknesses.
Ages 18/23 are probably the most important in player development. Ideally you would manage this development yourself as you lose control once you've sent the player out on loan. But the important thing is that the player is getting 1-1 coaching on their own area's for improvement, are learning daily in training from working with better players and coaches, and are constantly challenged when playing against the better players. So any player we're sending out for development needs to be done at a standard where they will be challenged, where they will have to improve to succeed.
So take DCL as an example. He's already played nearly 100 senior games, 50 of those at Everton. Send him to the championship on loan next season and you'll end up with a player that scores goals against championship level players and defenders. Think Tammy Abrahams, who was prolific at Bristol City season before last. If he stayed here, he would get plenty of game time as understudy to Tosun, most of it from the bench maybe, but still lots of game time to develop in a more attack minded system.
If we brought in another striker (either first choice or back up to Tosun) I'd send him out on loan as he wouldn't get the game time, but I'd find a club in the premiership or maybe the Bundesliga. There will be plenty of takers.
Dom 
That's pure guesswork. You assume they've lost confidence because they've not been playing. It's a reasonable hypothesis but you can't just state it as fact because you've got no idea. You also can't assume the loss of confidence is because of the loan, which is the point I was trying to get across. If Galloway couldn't get a game for WBA or Sunderland then he wouldn't have got a game for us, so how exactly would that have helped his confidence levels?
By the same token, you could argue that Holgate, Kenny, Lookman and Vlasic lost confidence when staying here because they kept getting dropped. I would say that Davies definitely seemed to lose confidence this year because he was genuinely struggling to keep his head above water. He was trying to do everything at 100mph because everyone was bigger faster and stronger than him and it looked like he'd been told to stop losing the ball so he just stopped playing his natural game. That's not beneficial in my opinion.
Again, i'm not saying DCL should be loaned out at all, simply that I can see the logic in suggesting it. As this is the transfer thread I would expand on that by saying I think we need better options up front than we had last year. If DCL hasn't improved significantly then I believe we need to bring someone in who offers more of a threat.
Barnfred 55
Player Valuation: £80m
I know. You can't win.And then you get the Lookman situation...
Given the manager we had at the time, Lookman going to Germany was the right decision in hindsight. Allardyce wouldn't have given him anywhere near the same game time, or played in a way where the lad could express himself the way he did over there.
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