Summer Transfer Window 2017

[marchy]

I thought for a second there you said Baines could get a start at City and Arsenal....oh....

We live in the past with players. If this club is to make the leap forward we have to get ruthless: fallen irreversibly from previous standards? Yes. Then there's the door. And THAT is exactly the position we are in with Baines and Jagielka, and I dont think Williams will be too far behind them out the door.

An ambitious (a really ambitious) club would act decisively. Us? We'll let them hang around for another season or two longer than we should do.

You do spout some nonesense, have Arsenal acted decisvely in the transfer in the last number of years? hardly. City have splashed the cash but have they really replaced the likes of Kompany? It isn't easy to replace an integral part of the team, which despite your ramblins is what Baines has been and still is. As it stands repalcing Baines is less important than replacing Jags or Funes Mori.

Surely signing Scheiderlin in Jan was acting to replace players who were past their best, Barry, or could no longer be relied on, McCarthy.

 

[marchy]

Agree with all that mate, but even the players you mentioned will be costing over £100 million!!!

Thats the kind of sums we need to be spending this window, last summer we spent in the region of £45m (Bolaisse 28ish, Williams 10ish, Gana, 7.5ish) and missed out on £30m on deadline day for Sissoko plus another £30m in Jan(Schneiderlin 20 and Lookman 10) so it's not hugely unrealistic.

Assuming we can offload some of the unwanted then we should bring in around £30-£40 mil I'd say (Clev £8m, Niasse £10m, McCarthy £15-20).

Unfortunately these days it's getting to the stage for £20-£30m only gets you an established premier league player or maybe a top young talent thats a gamble

 

[Stephenlloyd]

I think that'd be the plan mate.

We're definitely going to go for Keane.

In an ideal world, Keane and Virjil would be the two to come in, with Jags leaving.

Throw in say, Robertson, as left-back cover/eventual Baines replacement, and you've got a very decent batch of defenders to deal with Europe and league demands.

I know Seamus will be out until Christmas at least, but Holgate will be given the chance to make the RB position his own in the time being.

I hope we're in for De vrij, been the odd link. I think RK brought him through at feyenoord. Think he would be perfect for the prem.

I disagree with this let's get a youngster to sit on the bench and wait for baines to fall apart. Clubs with big ambition don't act like that. Why wait for another possible distain and Howard moment.

Baines is on the way down imo. Go and buy a mid 20's left back for 20mil. Which tells baines he might not be in the team.

Look at Chelsea they were poor last season terry looked finished. Did they buy a teenager a give terry another season. No they spend 30mil on a CB and drop their captain and legend. And now they are winning the league.

 

[Pabbers]

Thats the kind of sums we need to be spending this window, last summer we spent in the region of £45m (Bolaisse 28ish, Williams 10ish, Gana, 7.5ish) and missed out on £30m on deadline day for Sissoko plus another £30m in Jan(Schneiderlin 20 and Lookman 10) so it's not hugely unrealistic.

Assuming we can offload some of the unwanted then we should bring in around £30-£40 mil I'd say (Clev £8m, Niasse £10m, McCarthy £15-20).

Unfortunately these days it's getting to the stage for £20-£30m only gets you an established premier league player or maybe a top young talent thats a gamble

AGreed, but you did just call this kind of stuff 'Football Manager'.

 

[toffeeblue9]

I hope we're in for De vrij, been the odd link. I think RK brought him through at feyenoord. Think he would be perfect for the prem.

I disagree with this let's get a youngster to sit on the bench and wait for baines to fall apart. Clubs with big ambition don't act like that. Why wait for another possible distain and Howard moment.

Baines is on the way down imo. Go and buy a mid 20's left back for 20mil. Which tells baines he might not be in the team.

Look at Chelsea they were poor last season terry looked finished. Did they buy a teenager a give terry another season. No they spend 30mil on a CB and drop their captain and legend. And now they are winning the league.

Re Baines, I'm a huge fan of his. Said a number of times that to my mind it's a straight fight between him and Ray Wilson as to who has been our best ever left back

Having said that, he has never been the quickest left back in the world. Not slow, but not blessed with searing pace. My concern about him now is that he is 32 and we could conceivably shortly be walking into another Barry situation where his lack of pace becomes an issue that we have to compensate for.

I think this summer is absolutely the right time to bring in a successor. I am worried that given he signed a new deal not that long ago, Koeman doesn't see this as a priority. Thing is, who plays left back when he gets injured? We don't have a deputy now that Oviedo has left. We either need to bring in cover, or spend bigger on a potential successor - Robertson is a player I like, but not sure he'll ever reach Baines' level. Tierney and Shaw are both players who, in the right scenario, could be obtainable and I'd spend relatively big in that area. No way Baines can play twice a week every week if we make it into The Europa League, so some thought needs to go into that and I don't think Garbutt or Galloway are going to be considered viable alternatives.

 

[marchy]

AGreed, but you did just call this kind of stuff 'Football Manager'.

I was referring to replaing an entire back 5 though and expecting it to gel!

I don't think the type of spending we're talking about above is fantasy fooball/fooball manager any more. I'd be amazed if we spend less than £60 mil in the summer and assuming we do shift the players who are currently on loan or look to be out of favour with the manager then our squad needs bulking up if we qualify for Europe. As I said we spent 40 odd million in the summer and it would have been more like 75m if Sissoko hadn't turned us down.

 

[Zatara]

Strong English core?! FFS

Number one, English teams have performed horribly in Europe so clearly the very best sides do not have an English core (Barcelona, Bayern, Real Madrid)

Secondly, let's just look at the premier league teams' reliance on English players:

Chelsea: Cahill is the only English player worth mentioning
Liverpool: Lalanna, Clyne and Milner are decent but none are their star players/core like Firmino, Coutinho and Mane
United: Collection of mediocre England substitutes who are behind the true core of Pogba, Ibrahimovic, etc.
Arsenal: few English players who are all garbage
City: sterling and John can't defend Stones are the ones worth mentioning, of course these are secondary to actual good players like Silva and Aguero
Spurs: I'll give you this one

Barca= Spanish core
Bayern = german core

etc etc

The top sides more often than not have a local core of players. The core doesn't necessarily mean the best In the side but the consistent performers who play every possible game. As an English club we should benefit from local players of high qualty

 

[Zatara]

Our defence has been much improved down to tactics and organisation so far an only imagine how much meaner it would be with some quality additions.

This really...

 

[marchy]

I hope we're in for De vrij, been the odd link. I think RK brought him through at feyenoord. Think he would be perfect for the prem.

I disagree with this let's get a youngster to sit on the bench and wait for baines to fall apart. Clubs with big ambition don't act like that. Why wait for another possible distain and Howard moment.

Baines is on the way down imo. Go and buy a mid 20's left back for 20mil. Which tells baines he might not be in the team.

Look at Chelsea they were poor last season terry looked finished. Did they buy a teenager a give terry another season. No they spend 30mil on a CB and drop their captain and legend. And now they are winning the league.

I think you have to be realistic tough, attacting a mid 20's left back who is good enough will not come cheap and there are other positions more in need of immediate strengthening. I read an interview with Unsworth the other day where he said that if they have a 17 year ;left back who they think is good enough for the first team then they won't go out and buy a 20 year old in the same posiion as it blocks their path to the first team. This is what happended with Garbutt when we signed Oviedo and we've changed tact a bit in recent seasons, Holgate, Lookman, Calvert Lewin have all been signed and given the opportunity to stake a claim. I think thats what will happen with positions like full back where we need cover. If we have a youngster at the club who they feel can step up then they'll get the chance, if not then I think we'd look to bring in a 19/20 year hold to provide that challenge rather than a 25 year old. You can afford to gradually bring through a younger player without harming their development whereas say we signed someone like Robertson who is 23 and used to regular first team football in the Premier Legaue, if they all of a sudden found themselves on the bench it may halt their progress.

My guess at the moment is that where we need imediate imrpvoement we'll see someone between 24-28 signed, where its for cover it'll be more like 18-21.

 

[Zatara]

So you advocate spending circa £20m on a goalkeeper who, you believe, Stoke may sell due to his injury record?
Tell me why again we therefore should be buying him?

Because we need to take risks to break into the top 4...stoke will always be mid table and need stability

 

[Pabbers]

I was referring to replaing an entire back 5 though and expecting it to gel!

I don't think the type of spending we're talking about above is fantasy fooball/fooball manager any more. I'd be amazed if we spend less than £60 mil in the summer and assuming we do shift the players who are currently on loan or look to be out of favour with the manager then our squad needs bulking up if we qualify for Europe. As I said we spent 40 odd million in the summer and it would have been more like 75m if Sissoko hadn't turned us down.

Will be another summer of Zero net spend....Rom, Clev, Niasse will bring in £80 million plus.

 

[Zatara]

Is Pickford really an upgrade on Joel? Both good shot stoppers with the same weaknesses, in fact I've seen Joel perform well better than Pickford.
Butland is a wild card - been sidelined for a year or something now, hasn't he? Played 0 games this season, yet apparently any keeper seems to be better than what we have.

If Stoke are a team with a super keeper then why are they still turd? And Pickford - of course he looks amazing, he has to make roughly 97.4 saves a match because Sland are so crap. What's your fascination with keepers anyway?

No English side other than Spurs have a strong English core, mostly because English players are crap nowadays. Also Will Hughes is not all that.

Butland we would need to see how he gets on for the rest of the season...

 

[bluestevon]

Barca= Spanish core
Bayern = german core

etc etc

The top sides more often than not have a local core of players. The core doesn't necessarily mean the best In the side but the consistent performers who play every possible game. As an English club we should benefit from local players of high qualty

Sounds good until you factor in that the quality of the top German and Spanish players is a mile above the best English players mate, also off those two teams do, they are a mile above any other teams in their leagues besides real.

 

[Eggs]

I thought for a second there you said Baines could get a start at City and Arsenal....oh....

We live in the past with players. If this club is to make the leap forward we have to get ruthless: fallen irreversibly from previous standards? Yes. Then there's the door. And THAT is exactly the position we are in with Baines and Jagielka, and I dont think Williams will be too far behind them out the door.

An ambitious (a really ambitious) club would act decisively. Us? We'll let them hang around for another season or two longer than we should do.

..I mentioned this morning that Koeman has actually done well shifting players he doesn't want which is an achievement in the modern game where players are often content to sit on long contracts. I'm not sure what you're expecting, change takes time and what the manager is achieving is maintaining a reasonable position throughout the process.

 

[Zatara]

I'd be delighted if we brought him in Mikey.

I don't think that he'd walk into a PL side - like Zat does - but he'd definitely be one for the future.

Him or Robertson would be very smart acquisitions for that role IMO.

Conversely, I don't see the attraction with robertson