Summer Transfer Window 2017

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evertonarntwe said:
sunderland would be a good place to send some of the young lads, ie dowell/walsh etc. big ground and fans similar to us to get used to playing in, youngish English manager to give them game time

make it happen
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I think it's a bit arrogant of us to assume that completely untested kids are going to be given opportunities at relatively big clubs who have ambitions - and academies - of their own.

We hear it a lot with people saying 'I'd get x,y and z out on loan' or 'I can't believe we didn't put a recall clause in', as if we can just palm players off on whatever club we want, demand that they play and say we can take them back at the drop of a hat. Doesn't work like that I'm afraid.
 
https://www.francefootball.fr/news/A-caen-l-imbroglio-karamoh/814606

Lol, who was asking about Yann Karamoh yesterday? @Nymzee (ah I see you've already posted on it)
In Caen, the imbroglio Karamoh
Coveted notably by clubs of Premier League, the middle of Caen could go to the end of his contract and join Saint-Etienne ... next summer!

Is Yann Karamoh (18 years old) going to have a white season? The hypothesis is not excluded. After a promising season with Caen, the offensive midfielder is one year away from the end of his contract and has already told his leaders that he will not extend it. Faced with this situation, as revealed in our newspaper Tuesday, the Norman club mandated an agent to find a way out. Several foreign clubs have already demonstrated more or less concrete interests including three Premier League (West Ham, Southampton and Everton). What to draw the outlines of a start this summer? It's not that obvious.
In cold weather with Caen, his adviser would have already drawn the outline of an agreement with Saint-Etienne for the season ... 2018-2019! The player can engage freely with the club Stephanois from January 1, 2018. The Caen leaders however want to avoid this scenario and hope to find a solution profitable to all parties this summer. A solution that would, in the current situation, pass through a transfer that would allow them to register an indemnity in the coming weeks. But in case of failure, the player could take the risk of not being part of the plans of his club for the season to come.
 
Lanolin said:
I think it's a bit arrogant of us to assume that completely untested kids are going to be given opportunities at relatively big clubs who have ambitions - and academies - of their own.

We hear it a lot with people saying 'I'd get x,y and z out on loan' or 'I can't believe we didn't put a recall clause in', as if we can just palm players off on whatever club we want, demand that they play and say we can take them back at the drop of a hat. Doesn't work like that I'm afraid.
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of course it works like that. sunderland are now a championship team and if any young player is good enough and will give them a hand of course they'll take them on loan & same for the rest of the teams in the lower leagues, they haven't got money to keep buying players so rely on prem teams loaning them out young talented kids for a cheap fee
 

Lanolin said:
I think it's a bit arrogant of us to assume that completely untested kids are going to be given opportunities at relatively big clubs who have ambitions - and academies - of their own.

We hear it a lot with people saying 'I'd get x,y and z out on loan' or 'I can't believe we didn't put a recall clause in', as if we can just palm players off on whatever club we want, demand that they play and say we can take them back at the drop of a hat. Doesn't work like that I'm afraid.
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Agree but take no offence from people suggesting such things we won't be able to spend £55m like the mags or £70m+ like Villa so we will be loaning some players given how small our squad will be. Out of our young players Gooch possibly Asoro and Embleton will be around the first team squad this season
 
evertonarntwe said:
of course it works like that. sunderland are now a championship team and if any young player is good enough and will give them a hand of course they'll take them on loan & same for the rest of the teams in the lower leagues, they haven't got money to keep buying players so rely on prem teams loaning them out young talented kids for a cheap fee
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So you don't think it's arrogant to think that Sunderland would take someone like Liam Walsh, who has never even made our bench, and give him games ahead of Cattermole, Gibson. Ndong, Rodwell etc? Or that Kieron Dowell would be seen as a huge upgrade on Duncan Watmore, Lynden Gooch and the seemingly extremely highly rated Asoro?

Players like Garbutt were being talked about as stars by our fans not so long ago, but keep tanking on loan. It's just not realistic to think that a club who wants to get promoted will rely on blooding someone else's youngsters, with the possibility of them being recalled at any moment and their promotion charge being completely derailed.

I'm not saying none of our players could go and play at that level, but the idea that we can ship out a load of players we don't want yet en masse to promotion chasing clubs in the championship is completely pie in the sky. We're absolutely nowhere near that level yet.
 
Lanolin said:
I think it's a bit arrogant of us to assume that completely untested kids are going to be given opportunities at relatively big clubs who have ambitions - and academies - of their own.

We hear it a lot with people saying 'I'd get x,y and z out on loan' or 'I can't believe we didn't put a recall clause in', as if we can just palm players off on whatever club we want, demand that they play and say we can take them back at the drop of a hat. Doesn't work like that I'm afraid.
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It's a Football Manager syndrome....Before I quit that game I had top youth players on loan and playing at Utd.City.Bayern.Barca and more...lol
 
Lanolin said:
So you don't think it's arrogant to think that Sunderland would take someone like Liam Walsh, who has never even made our bench, and give him games ahead of Cattermole, Gibson. Ndong, Rodwell etc? Or that Kieron Dowell would be seen as a huge upgrade on Duncan Watmore, Lynden Gooch and the seemingly extremely highly rated Asoro?

Players like Garbutt were being talked about as stars by our fans not so long ago, but keep tanking on loan. It's just not realistic to think that a club who wants to get promoted will rely on blooding someone else's youngsters, with the possibility of them being recalled at any moment and their promotion charge being completely derailed.

I'm not saying none of our players could go and play at that level, but the idea that we can ship out a load of players we don't want yet en masse to promotion chasing clubs in the championship is completely pie in the sky. We're absolutely nowhere near that level yet.
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it's arrogant if we tell sunderland or likewise teams YOU ARE TAKING KIERAN DOWELL AND PLAYING HIM NO IFF'S OR BUTS, but it doesn't work like that does it? obviously they will have the kids watched ( not in a nonce way ) and see if they think they can add something.

and you've just listed some terrible players most of which are always injured and part of the reason sunderland have just been relagated
 

evertonarntwe said:
it's arrogant if we tell sunderland or likewise teams YOU ARE TAKING KIERAN DOWELL AND PLAYING HIM NO IFF'S OR BUTS, but it doesn't work like that does it? obviously they will have the kids watched ( not in a nonce way ) and see if they think they can add something.

and you've just listed some terrible players most of which are always injured and part of the reason sunderland have just been relagated
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Ah sorry, you've misunderstood what I meant.

I meant us as fans, not as a club. I meant it is arrogant for us to believe that our young players are so good that other clubs will want them that much they will agree to any demands we make (ie we can take them back if we want, you have to play them every week etc) which is what some people seem to suggest should happen.

Obviously if a club decides they want one of young players that's fine, I just don't think it's very realistic to think that players who can't get near our squad would be seen as must haves to clubs who probably see themselves as not that far off us in standing. To put into perspective, 2 players you've just called terrible both played a hell of a lot more games for Everton than the players we're talking about here.

We're not in a position like Chelsea or City where they have squads jammed with superstars. If a young player of ours is good enough to be a star in the championship they're likely good enough to get decent game time for us and so we don't send them out on loan. That's why I say it doesn't work like that, because it doesn't. Like demonstrably it doesn't, our best young players invariably break into our team if they're good enough, and don't usually go out on loan.
 
Lanolin said:
I think it's a bit arrogant of us to assume that completely untested kids are going to be given opportunities at relatively big clubs who have ambitions - and academies - of their own.

We hear it a lot with people saying 'I'd get x,y and z out on loan' or 'I can't believe we didn't put a recall clause in', as if we can just palm players off on whatever club we want, demand that they play and say we can take them back at the drop of a hat. Doesn't work like that I'm afraid.
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Do you not think as a fan base we are pretty arrogant though. Almost snobbish. I sometimes liken us to the old aristocracy from the 17/1800s, turning our noses up at the "new money" clubs like Chelsea and City, whilst at times being downright condescending to wannabees like West Ham, Stoke, Newcastle and Southampton. Begrudgingly allowing parity with the likes of Spurs, Arsenal, United and the RS.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this by the way. if I'm honest I probably think that way myself. I just think it's amazing that, as a group, we are still able to hold onto this sense of superiority given that the majority of our fans haven't even tasted any sustained success over the last 30 years or so. Obviously our young fans are being well groomed in the old traditions.;)

As regards loans though, it is arrogant of us I agree, but the fact is Sunderland are now in the second tier, do have big finance issues by all accounts, and in all likelihood, will be looking to take on loan high quality young players. We have two or three that fit the bill so why not?
 
Albertini78 said:
Agree but take no offence from people suggesting such things we won't be able to spend £55m like the mags or £70m+ like Villa so we will be loaning some players given how small our squad will be. Out of our young players Gooch possibly Asoro and Embleton will be around the first team squad this season
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Whatever happened to Rees Greenwood mate?. I remember watching him in a live televised U21 match a couple of seasons ago that you won 3-2. He had a great game and his corners where unbelievable. He really looked the part.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
Do you not think as a fan base we are pretty arrogant though. Almost snobbish. I sometimes liken us to the old aristocracy from the 17/1800s, turning our noses up at the "new money" clubs like Chelsea and City, whilst at times being downright condescending to wannabees like West Ham, Stoke, Newcastle and Southampton. Begrudgingly allowing parity with the likes of Spurs, Arsenal, United and the RS.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with this by the way. if I'm honest I probably think that way myself. I just think it's amazing that, as a group, we are still able to hold onto this sense of superiority given that the majority of our fans haven't even tasted any sustained success over the last 30 years or so. Obviously our young fans are being well groomed in the old traditions.;)

As regards loans though, it is arrogant of us I agree, but the fact is Sunderland are now in the second tier, do have big finance issues by all accounts, and in all likelihood, will be looking to take on loan high quality young players. We have two or three that fit the bill so why not?
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Very good post.

Final thing on this because I didn't mean to derail the thread. I agree, if Sunderland or any other top championship club want our players then that's absolutely great. I only meant to pass comment on the 'why don't we just send them to (insert club name here)' attitude that we sometimes see on here, as if Everton have the choice of sending a young player to whichever club they choose. I might be wrong, but the noises the club has made suggest that Everton would be very keen to send Dowell out on loan to the right club. The fact he hasn't been loaned though, suggests that the 'right clubs' aren't interested in taking him. That's what I think people sometimes overlook.
 
Who's_up_for_cumpkins? said:
How convinced are we Roms actually going?I was 100%, must admit that's dropped for me slightly, dunno whether that's influenced by the spin and counter spin being played. Maybe just a gut feeling. Needs to be sorted by next few weeks. There needs to be a cut off like with Chelsea so they don't [Poor language removed] about like they did with stones.
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...Paul Mariner saying there have been definite bids from Chelsea and Manchester United. He references a source within our club which might not go down too well;

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/foot...-Man-Utd-Chelsea-Everton-transfer-news-gossip
 

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