The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[The Esk]

You think the access to American markets will be a mirage? Even if it's lopsided (which hopefully it won't be), you would think having extra competition would prove a better deal for customers, whilst also providing potential new jobs if they decide to setup shop in Europe.

No, I can't think of a successful entry into the US by any British company, in fact most have been unmitigated disasters.

Secondly since when has the entry of private companies into the public space resulted in better deals for consumers? With the exception perhaps of the telecommunications industry there are very few examples.

 

[Walken]

No, I can't think of a successful entry into the US by any British company, in fact most have been umitigated disasters.

Secondly since when has the entry of private companies into the public space resulted in better deals for consumers? With the exception perhaps of the telecommunications industry there are very few examples.

It isn't better fir the consumers, brucies pro free market chat hasn't been too successful in this debate, though im sure he has recently attended a conference to prove otherwise. 'Competition might improve sercice' 'a company might come in that has the nhs's best interests at heart', too many ifs too many maybe's and the chances of some corperation coming in and doing anything other than heavily favouring profit over customer service or the weakthfare of their staff is zilch

 

[Mrtallywacker]

A most illuminating debate. I particularly enjoy hearing the views of @the esk and @Bruce Wayne. Despite speaking from different ends of the political spectrum they are always eloquent and respectful to any differing views.
God bless them both.

 

[hullefc]

Monday, 31 March 2014 11:40
Who is behind Reform's call for NHS charges?
By Tamasin Cave

Spinwatch.

"Will he, won't he?" ponder NHS pundits plucking the petals of the privatisation daisy, as they consider the position of Simon Stevens, the incoming chief executive of NHS England, outgoing president of the global health division of the American United Health Group and former health adviser to Tony Blair".

US health insurance giant UnitedHealth, which has faced accusations of overcharging and malpractice.

However, in the mid-noughties, a lobbyist for Standard Life Healthcare, which is now part of PruHealth, grumbled about the communication challenge facing the private healthcare industry (page 6 of pdf).

When money for health services is tight, how to get more British people to buy private health insurance, without being seen to undermine the NHS, was proving difficult. 'The problem we will always have is that we’ll get accused of “Well you would say that, wouldn’t you?”’ he told an industry round table on the Future of Healthcare.

His proposed way of getting around this challenge was to use third parties: ‘It’s actually not us who needs to be saying it; we need other people to do so.’ The lobbyist confirmed that the private health insurance industry was working to ‘get some of the think tanks to say it, so it’s not just us calling for reform, it’s professionals, it’s outside commentators . . . it does need others to help us take the debate forward’.

So, let us begin by being up front about who is speaking and why. If the insurers are putting their words in the mouths of seemingly independent bodies like think tanks, who have both political influence and can command significant media attention, this is not a good place to start".

Lobbying has begun in earnest to promote private fee paying health care. And the ex president of United Health is well placed to 'promote' the expansion of the privatisation of the NHS.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Monday, 31 March 2014 11:40
Who is behind Reform's call for NHS charges?
By Tamasin Cave

Spinwatch.

"Will he, won't he?" ponder NHS pundits plucking the petals of the privatisation daisy, as they consider the position of Simon Stevens, the incoming chief executive of NHS England, outgoing president of the global health division of the American United Health Group and former health adviser to Tony Blair".

US health insurance giant UnitedHealth, which has faced accusations of overcharging and malpractice.

However, in the mid-noughties, a lobbyist for Standard Life Healthcare, which is now part of PruHealth, grumbled about the communication challenge facing the private healthcare industry (page 6 of pdf).

When money for health services is tight, how to get more British people to buy private health insurance, without being seen to undermine the NHS, was proving difficult. 'The problem we will always have is that we’ll get accused of “Well you would say that, wouldn’t you?”’ he told an industry round table on the Future of Healthcare.

His proposed way of getting around this challenge was to use third parties: ‘It’s actually not us who needs to be saying it; we need other people to do so.’ The lobbyist confirmed that the private health insurance industry was working to ‘get some of the think tanks to say it, so it’s not just us calling for reform, it’s professionals, it’s outside commentators . . . it does need others to help us take the debate forward’.

So, let us begin by being up front about who is speaking and why. If the insurers are putting their words in the mouths of seemingly independent bodies like think tanks, who have both political influence and can command significant media attention, this is not a good place to start".

Lobbying has begun in earnest to promote private fee paying health care. And the ex president of United Health is well placed to 'promote' the expansion of the privatisation of the NHS.

Stephens published his five year strategy for NHS England a month or so ago. No need for conspiracy theories.

http://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/5yfv-web.pdf

 

[hullefc]

Stephens published his five year strategy for NHS England a month or so ago. No need for conspiracy theories.

http://www.england.nhs.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/5yfv-web.pdf

Oh deary me.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

No, I can't think of a successful entry into the US by any British company, in fact most have been unmitigated disasters.

Secondly since when has the entry of private companies into the public space resulted in better deals for consumers? With the exception perhaps of the telecommunications industry there are very few examples.

That can't be to say that all overseas companies operating in the US have flopped though surely? I mean don't the likes of BAe do most of their business in the US? It seems wrong to suggest that because Tesco and Stagecoach flopped there that we should not make it as easy as possible for others to give it a go.

Re the second point, this isn't just about allowing private companies to bid for public tenders is it? It's about making it easier for any organisation to trade in Europe. This is focusing on healthcare (I feel) so I'll stick to that. It seems hard to believe that the likes of the Mayo Clinic setting up here would not be beneficial any less than a Stanford or Harvard would be. Of course, if this goes through, there would presumably be nothing to stop the NHS exporting itself overseas too, much like BBC Worldwide does. Only last year Nigel Edwards from the King's Fund was talking about the possibility of doing this.

It isn't better fir the consumers, brucies pro free market chat hasn't been too successful in this debate, though im sure he has recently attended a conference to prove otherwise. 'Competition might improve sercice' 'a company might come in that has the nhs's best interests at heart', too many ifs too many maybe's and the chances of some corperation coming in and doing anything other than heavily favouring profit over customer service or the weakthfare of their staff is zilch

I don't really understand how you can say that? Are you really trying to suggest that the NHS has now, and will have indefinitely, all of the answers to every challenge facing healthcare? Thankfully I know for a fact that people inside the NHS don't think that and are willing to look under every rock to ensure the best ideas get through.

I also know, sadly for a fact, that the procurement process in the NHS is a major barrier to achieving that at this moment. It does need simplifying massively.

We should try and avoid getting hung up on this private = blood sucking profiteer thing. It doesn't have to mean that at all. I mentioned Buurzorg earlier and they're neither putting profit above their workforce or their customers.



He's on Twitter if you wanted to grill him about it. Very approachable guy. https://twitter.com/josdeblok

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Oh deary me.

I know, that's it, trust some article on a conspiracy theory website over the actual mans strategy document. *sigh*

 

[hullefc]

'The Minnesota-based UnitedHealth has already become a key adviser to primary care trusts (PCTs) on commissioning health services and operating bids to run GP practices. Earlier this month it beat Bupa and Humana, another US health insurer, to win the contract from the health department to advise PCTs.

The decision follows successful bids to run two GP practices in Derbyshire in 2006 and three practices in central London in 2008, taking over from the Brunswick Group. In April the company announced a 21% increase in profits for the first three months of the year to $1.2bn (£784m).

United said it brought high level management expertise and efficient provision of services to the UK health service but it has faced accusations of overcharging and malpractice in a series of legal suits.

In 2008 it agreed to pay $50m after the New York attorney general Andrew Cuomo sued the company "as part of a broad probe into how insurers pay doctors and hospitals that aren't in the companies networks".

According to Cuomo, UnitedHealth's Ingenix unit operated a "defective and manipulated database" to set charges for medical services.

Its California subsidiary was fined a record $3.5m in the same year for mishandled claims against patients and doctors. In 2006 The UnitedHealth chief executive William McGuire resigned after an investigation "concluded he had received stock option grants 'likely backdated' to allow insiders to maximise financial gains." During his tenure as chief executive, McGuire was granted more than $1.6bn in stock options. In 2007, McGuire avoided trial after he agreed to repay $468m''.


At the heart of dictating the direction/strategy the NHS should take is the very same person that directed UnitedHealth.
UnitedHealth[edit]
From 2004-6 he was President of UnitedHealth Europe and moved on to be Chief Executive Officer of UnitedHealthcare Medicare & Retirement and then President, Global Health, & UnitedHealth Group Executive Vice President of UnitedHealth Group. In October 2013, the speaker biography of Stevens for a health networking conference read, "His responsibilities include leading UnitedHealth’s strategy for, and engagement with, national health reform, ensuring its businesses are positioned for changes in the market and regulatory environment."[5]

While in the USA, living in Minnesota, he continued to write articles about the NHS.

We have had the pension scandal followed by PPI fiddle. The NHS skimming of the top will be exposed with the ever expanding privatisation strategy. TTIP will open up even more opportunities to plunder the public purse and peoples money.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Can you at least source these articles you copy and paste?

 

[hullefc]

Can you at least source these articles you copy and paste?

Scratches head in puzzlement. The last one was sourced, spinwatch. It was there for you to read, if you so wished. Ah always did have problems with professors whilst studying 'source this, source that' whilst never actually reading the source themselves. Then making a comment, 'where did you get that information from'.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Scratches head in puzzlement. The last one was sourced, spinwatch. It was there for you to read, if you so wished. Ah always did have problems with professors whilst studying 'source this, source that' whilst never actually reading the source themselves. Then making a comment, 'where did you get that information from'.

No, it really wasn't. You've copied stuff from a Guardian article from 2010 mixed in with what appears to be Wikipedia.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/jul/16/unitedhealth-profits-questions

Nowhere in your post have you linked to any source for the post. Please do so in future

 

[hullefc]

No, it really wasn't. You've copied stuff from a Guardian article from 2010 mixed in with what appears to be Wikipedia.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2010/jul/16/unitedhealth-profits-questions

Nowhere in your post have you linked to any source for the post. Please do so in future

Yes, it really was as part of the spinwatch article [the blue print]. Mind, reading all the information in an article [the blue print as well] is quite a skill. Worthwhile bearing in mind for the future.

 

[edge]

just a thought the current trans atlantic trade treaty gettting disscussed would mean any part of the NHS that went private, would remain so , even if the elected goverment of the time wanted to reprivatise it, anybody else think this is a step to far?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

just a thought the current trans atlantic trade treaty gettting disscussed would mean any part of the NHS that went private, would remain so , even if the elected goverment of the time wanted to reprivatise it, anybody else think this is a step to far?

Do we know that to be the case? There seems a lot of certainty over the contents of something that was (wrongly imo) so secretive.

It would seem logical for it to work something like this:

- NHS need a service providing
- They put it out to tender
- Through the trade treaty they cannot discriminate against any bidder on account of their location
- The NHS choose the best bid
- The tender then goes according to its terms (which would presumably have a timescale included)

Assuming that latter to be the case, and it would seem an odd tender that didn't, then once the contract had run its course, it would need to be reopened again.

Of course, I haven't seen anything about the treaty document, but that approach would seem sensible to me.