The 2015 Popularity Contest (aka UK General Election )

[Bruce Wayne]

Perhaps we'd be better off teaching all our kids not to be selfish, to look out for our neighbours and to help others in their hour of need.

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here. How do you mean?

 

[daylightrobber]

I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here. How do you mean?

I thought that in this bit

With freedom comes responsibility though surely? Having children is arguably the most important thing you'll ever do. It shouldn't really need saying that a bit of thought goes into how you'll raise the child before creating it, and yet over half of pregnancies are unplanned.

I've no doubt that my views are moulded by my circumstances, and you know the proof required before you can adopt a child in terms of your income, your relationship, your home etc.

So many problems stem from giving a child a poor upbringing that I do wonder if we haven't gotten things rather wrong here (in an albeit well-intentioned way).

You were talking about bringing your kids up as right wingers.

 

[The Esk]

In 2011, 25% of UK households had 3 or more children, yet as demonstrated by the above graphic that falls to 23% for families claiming out of work benefits.

So the evidence that people have more children to receive more benefits really does not add up - more right wing propaganda destroyed by facts.

 

[Joey66]

So anyone who has kids that they cannot afford should be allowed to have more kids? Does the welfare of those children ever enter your head?

What utter tosh the average family in the UK is 2 & a1/2 kids!- unless they are Tories as they breed like flys!lol

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I thought that in this bit



You were talking about bringing your kids up as right wingers.

Ah yes, I forgot that only people that agree with what you say can be decent human beings.

 

[daylightrobber]

Ah yes, I forgot that only people that agree with what you say can be decent human beings.

I was taking the mick. Did I touch a nerve?

Although I would argue that decent human beings wouldn't dictate how many kids others can or can't have.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I was taking the mick. Did I touch a nerve.

There is a general level of pomposity that suggests only people broadly to the left of Marx himself can care about the poor that I don't think is particularly endearing.

 

[Joey66]

Tory dogma? Ah yes, the 'if you criticise labour you are a Tory' line. How superb.

It's tory policy on the welfare cuts

 

[edge]

I
[QUOTE="Bruce Wayne, post: 3508712, member: There is a general level of pomposity that suggests only people broadly to the left of Marx himself can care about the poor that I don't think is particularly endearing.[/QUOTE]

plenty of right wingers care about the poor bruce I mean who would clean up after them, cut the grass ect more poor the better means you can get a decent day work out of the beggers for less

 

[daylightrobber]

There is a general level of pomposity that suggests only people broadly to the left of Marx himself can care about the poor that I don't think is particularly endearing.

If that's how you interpret it then so be it. I'm not going pretend to be someone I'm not. I am proud to admit that I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is and act on my convictions.

I'm trying really hard not to make this about individuals here, but rather policy and ideology. If I've overstepped the mark in that respect then I apologise. However, I do seem to have taken a not unnoticeable amount of personal flak over the last few days, I'd appreciate being shown the same courtesy.

With all that in mind, can you please explain how right wing policies in this country have benefited the poor? What have the coalition done for the poor other than cut their benefits and told them its for their own good, whilst at the same time giving tax breaks to the rich?

 

[roydo]

Been doing a bit of my own research, cos I am getting pretty bored by the "debate" being had atm, and the constant lobbing around of accusations and general mud slinging.

One that has intrigued me is the constant accusations of rabid right wing cuts in some way being a deliberate attack on poor and vulnerable people.

The figure of £30billion seems to be todays preferred figure.

Which is a lot of money.

But in context, it just over 4% of last years total government expenditure. 4%.

Putting aside any agendas, is it that hard for any government to find 4% of savings in a budget of £740 billion?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

If that's how you interpret it then so be it. I'm not going pretend to be someone I'm not. I am proud to admit that I'm prepared to put my money where my mouth is and act on my convictions.

I'm trying really hard not to make this about individuals here, but rather policy and ideology. If I've overstepped the mark in that respect then I apologise. However, I do seem to have taken a not unnoticeable amount of personal flak over the last few days, I'd appreciate being shown the same courtesy.

With all that in mind, can you please explain how right wing policies in this country have benefited the poor? What have the coalition done for the poor other than cut their benefits and told them its for their own good, whilst at the same time giving tax breaks to the rich?

For the record here, I'm not talking about you personally, but more the general tone that's been running through this thread for a really long time.

I'm also not in the business of defending the Conservatives and won't be voting for them next month, but there appears to be this notion (and again, this isn't directed at you personally) that the only way anything good can happen is via the engine of state. I don't believe that's the case at all, and yet I think every single project I've mentioned that helps poor people in some way, gets poo poo'd (sadly) by those on the left.

It's sad, because it's created this polemic environment where those in the Labour club oppose everything those in the Tory club say and vice versa, and it's almost done as a matter of course rather than treating things on their merits.

 

[Walken]

Been doing a bit of my own research, cos I am getting pretty bored by the "debate" being had atm, and the constant lobbing around of accusations and general mud slinging.

One that has intrigued me is the constant accusations of rabid right wing cuts in some way being a deliberate attack on poor and vulnerable people.

The figure of £30billion seems to be todays preferred figure.

Which is a lot of money.

But in context, it just over 4% of last years total government expenditure. 4%.

Putting aside any agendas, is it that hard for any government to find 4% of savings in a budget of £740 billion?

doesn't mean those savings should not be analysed and the effects they had shouldn't be either, given that you imply it is a small figure, then it shouldn't be too hard to take it from a sector where it doesn't cause death

 

[Eggs]

...I have to say it makes me groan when the Conservatives throw out the comment that they are the party to reward hard workers and those who plan a pension. As a Civil Servant it would be good if they practice what they preach for their government workers.

They have actually stopped Trade Unions taking subscriptions directly from pay. TUS members now have to arrange payment from their banks, the bottom line being that many thousands won't be bothered changing and membership reduces. All a bit underhand for a party that cares for hard workers.

 

[bluemangroup]

doesn't mean those savings should not be analysed and the effects they had shouldn't be either, given that you imply it is a small figure, then it shouldn't be too hard to take it from a sector where it doesn't cause death

Agree it doesn't seem proportionate but you aren't insulting @roydo enough so I can't give you a like.